Unknown: Hey, folks. This is Abel James, and thanks so much for joining us in this very special episode of the show. How much do musicians
actually make streaming and performing live? The truth is much gnarlier than you think, but we're working hard to change that. In this bonus series, you'll hear rapid fire interviews with remarkable musicians who are using cutting edge podcasting technology
to reinvent the music industry, and the time is almost upon us. I'm thrilled and honored to be playing the opening set live at Austin's legendary home of the blues, Antone's Nightclub, on December 16th for Adam Curry's Boostagram Ball, and I hope you can join us. I'll be premiering a brand new original tune on acoustic and then shredding some electric guitar and singing with SOB and the dangs. We'll be sharing the stage with 5 artists and bands, our friends, Suzanne Santo, Ainsley Costello, Henry Invisible, the total Austin Legend, FM Rodeo, fellow Austin Rockers, and surprise special guests.
These special episodes with fellow performing artists, by the way, are free of ads with no sponsors. So if you like what you're hearing, you can support this show by sending a boost or a boostogram to this show using a modern podcasting app like Fountain. And if you wanna help create a better future for music and podcasting,
here's your quick challenge. Download the Fountain FM app or modern podcasting 2.0 app and learn how to send a boost or a boostagram
to an artist or a podcaster
that you dig. And, of course, join us via livestream or in person for the SATS by Southwest Independent Music Summit at the Bitcoin Commons December 15th
and then at Antone's for the concert for Adam Curry's BoosterGram Ball on December 16th.
You can visit abeljames.com
for more details, and make sure to sign up for the newsletter. That way, I'll send you all of the updated links to the livestreams,
and you can grab your tickets as well. You can also find more information
at satsbysw.com.
Today, we're here with my dear friend and long time bandmate,
Stacy McCann. In this episode, you'll hear why you need to add getting fired to your to do list, how much musicians actually make streaming and playing live, what being a musician was like before social media,
how to convince yourself to create your dream band or learn how to play an instrument as an adult, and much more. And if you have a minute, make sure to listen until the end of this episode for a special concert recording of Stacy and I performing live earlier this year as SOB and the Danks. You'll be hearing the original tunes, Surrender and Whole Lotta Trouble, at the end of this episode, and we hope you dig it. Let's go hang out with Stace.
Welcome back, folks. Today we're here with my dear friend, bandmate, and creator of SOB and the dangs,
Stacy McCann. Stacy, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Good to see you. Good to see you too.
Let's start with this, why do you sound so dang funky?
Where did that all come from?
Hoo.
Bring us back.
Unknown: Yeah.
I've just as much as I love all genres of music,
seriously, like,
love classical,
love jazz, blues,
There's something about
anything that's funky and groovy and slinky,
I've always gravitated to.
And, I think too because I danced for many years
growing up in well into my teens, almost 20 years old.
You know, the rhythm gets into you. Mhmm. You know? And
James Brown. Thank you, James Brown. I mean,
changed my world.
And then it just went from there. Every other
iconic
funk band out there, I just
I just love it. I don't like, some people say, oh, it's it's so much the same. And especially JB,
as a bass player, a lot of his one note, you know? Mhmm. You gotta hit that one note,
balls on.
Otherwise, you lose the whole groove. And,
I can remember early days
just learning, just sitting there and just hitting on one note to some James Brown until
I started to feel it and be like, oh, yeah. That's what they're talking about.
You know? Like, pull back a little bit, mute a little bit. You know?
Anyway, it's just it's fun to play.
I like to move when I play, and so it's just a natural
Unknown: fit to love me the funky stuff. Yeah. What about bass in general? Because in many ways, it's an unlikely instrument for a woman to play.
And you've
been playing it at such an amazing level for so many years now. That experience must be unique. So what what got you into it in the first place?
Unknown: I could tell you the exact moment, and I may have mentioned this to you in the past, but,
the day that I really heard a baseline
like, really heard it, and I was like,
woah.
It was Led Zeppelin's
version of the Lemon song.
Notice I didn't say Led Zeppelin's Lemon song because it's one of many
blues songs that they,
called their own. But
John Paul Jones, I mean,
the baseline in that is insane. Yeah.
And then the more I start I was a big zep head anyway. And the more I started listening to more and more Zeppelin
and really listening to John Paul Jones playing,
I was like, I wanna do that. You know? I just
I heard it. I like, I really heard it. You know?
So that's that is the moment. I mean
so, honestly, I I'm an adult learner. Mhmm. I played violin as a kid,
did the orchestra's thing and all that, and
I was just out of college working, hating my job, hating corporate America,
and I got fired.
Best thing that ever happened to me. Listen, people.
If you haven't been fired yet in this life, it's a goal. I'm telling you,
it's incredibly liberating, and it can be very cathartic if you look at it the right way and take it as an opportunity
to change your direction, which is exactly what I did. So
I was thinking about grad school,
and I was like, fuck it. I'm going back to school, and I'm gonna learn how to play the bass.
And that's what I did
simultaneously.
Unknown: Amazing. And how long did it take you to feel like it
was something where you're like a bass player now, or you feel like it's it's some level of proficiency?
Was it a struggle, or did you get there kinda quick?
Unknown: Gee, I never really thought about it, but,
I'm every bass player joke out there. You know, I don't know if you've heard the jokes.
Like, bass player
goes for his their 1st bass lesson.
Oh, and what did they do for their 2nd bass lesson?
They had a gig. Yeah. That's kind that's kind of what happened to me. I was playing for, like, 6 months,
maybe a year, but I don't think so. Wow.
And,
I got a gig,
and I ended up working with this one band, a blues band,
on and off for I don't even know how long. And once you start, you know, you open that portal Mhmm.
It's over
or it's just begun, one or the other.
So,
it all happened really quickly and
in a good way and in a bad way because
instead of really honing in on the skills,
I had to focus on
what I had to do for the gigs.
You know what I mean?
So,
that came later where I was like, wait a minute.
When I stopped gigging for a while,
right around when I met you, soon after that, a couple of years after that, I just stepped away for a few years. Mhmm. And I took that time to really
focus
and,
try and get better. I mean, you we should always be trying to get better.
But,
yeah, I tried to make it more of a thing, not just
get to the gig, get through the gig, get paid, go home. Mhmm. You know?
Unknown: And what what did that look like in terms of a process of of training? Was it running scales, or were you going through books or some sort of curriculum?
Unknown: All of those things and, a lot of YouTubing.
Mhmm.
And and then I started
I was given an upright bass.
And that also helped because
I said to myself, you know what? I kind of
learned the electric bass
kind of
from friends, boyfriends, whatever. Mhmm. I'm gonna treat this with respect.
So I had the the honor and privilege of studying
with a semiprominant
jazz bassist.
I had to beg him to take me as a student because he was like, no. I'm too busy. I'm too busy. I'm like, I promise I'll practice. I promise. Yeah. You know, I won't waste your time.
And so that also helped me to
hone in my intonation,
my ear,
and,
certainly playing anything fretless, you better figure it out quick.
You know? Unforgiving.
Very. Very. So, yeah, it was all kind of like one thing after the other after the other and
but, yeah, just a lot of rudimentary stuff,
scales,
YouTubes.
Yeah.
Different ways to play the same thing in different places on the neck, that kind of thing.
Unknown: Yeah. I kinda went through a similar phase during a similar similar timeline. And for those who are listening, Stacy and I,
we met probably back in 2008 and started getting together
in multiple groups almost immediately after that. And we're really hitting it hard, like, playing a few times a week all over town around Austin, Texas back then. And,
yeah. So it was around the time that I started this this podcast that I was just burnt out on playing so many gigs. You know? And, you know, kind of just taking on too many things in in life in general. And so it was kind of a needed break, but,
I I missed the action. And
learning as an adult is something that a lot of people kinda, like, put off or think that they can't
can't really achieve that. But I've seen it happen so many different times. Like,
my mom and dad, when they were empty nested, my brother is a drummer,
and, you know, I play guitar and a few other instruments, and so we are filling the rooms with sound constantly. And when they were empty nested, it was way too quiet. So they started playing music. My dad started playing the banjo. My mom started playing the bass and the stand up bass, acoustic bass, you know, fretless.
And over the course of a few months, they kind of learned. And after a few years, they started gigging, and now they've been gigging for more than 10 years.
Some of the, you know, jams go for more than 4 hours,
and they really reached this level that is so incredible
to to see happen because, you know, that's in the face of a lot of people saying, well, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Right? You know? Or I always had this dream of playing the guitar, but it's too late now. It'll never happen. No. You can totally do that stuff now. It just means, like, spending quite a bit of time in a chair running scales.
Unknown: Yeah. I love that story.
Oh, I can't believe I haven't met your folks. I hope I get to one of these days. Oh, yeah. It'll be amazing. It'll be amazing. We'll have a,
Unknown: certified cluster pluck.
But
let's talk about what what was it that brought you to, to Texas in general, and what was your experience like shifting from, we're both also from the northeast, shifting from the northeast culture to the one down here?
Unknown: Yeah. The music scene here was really thriving when I first came through in 06
and then moved here January 07.
And it was easy to just kind of fall in. You know? I was still
very much into playing blues.
And, honestly, going to blues jams is the best way to meet players. Yeah.
And it was a great network of people down at Maggie Mays,
even at Antones,
same group that did these jams and
great community. I mean, I miss that. I really think Me too.
But, yeah, I mean, culturally,
I prefer it here
by much. I mean, I'm proud of where I'm from, but
what I really appreciate about
Austin, but Texas in general, having spent time in
a big portion of Central Texas,
is
I remember saying to people when we first moved here, I'm like, it's
people
are happy to be alive
and moving and doing things. Mhmm.
Like,
again,
relating it to music, but I couldn't believe going to shows
at 6 o'clock on a Tuesday.
Place would be packed,
all ages. Yeah. You know? And the band would start,
and it was all the people 70 and older that rushed the dance floor.
They didn't care
what time it was. I mean, where we come from,
people that age are like,
oh, it's it's a Tuesday night. I thought, well, I don't wanna go out. Like, I'll go to the Yeah. Early bird dinner or the diner or whatever.
Unknown: Totally.
Unknown: But here, people are, like, living, like, into living
and
a different kind
of hardiness.
Like, where we come from,
you gotta have grit for sure.
But here, it's a different thing, and I really appreciate it. I really do.
Just this independent
grit.
Mhmm.
Go Texans.
Unknown: What keeps the practice, though, of
creativity going for you? Whether it's playing the bass or some other sort of expression in the face of, you know, like, there not usually being a financial payoff, but it's also not quite a hobby because it takes a lot more effort than something like a hobby. Right? So, like, what has been your balance with that over the years?
Unknown: I mean, I've always made time
for music, but
I like to experiment with different things
and
take some time to explore something else.
You know, like, I joined a liturgical choir
for a few years,
and that was great. I mean, that was great for so many reasons. A, I got to sing classical music, which I love,
in different languages,
and really challenged me vocally
because I'm not a singer. You know? Like, I sing. I'm not a singer, and
that was a really great experience.
But
Unknown: where do I get my inspiration? Was that the original? Like Yeah. Like, what kinda, like, keeps that going? Why wouldn't you just
stop and not start again?
Unknown: I don't think I ever could. Yeah. Just
it really is
food for my soul. Mhmm. There's certain things in life that I could never stop.
Music,
yoga, and tequila.
Unknown: Nah. You gotta save room for tequila. What? Did I just say that?
Unknown: The other great thing about being in Texas,
that's that's just so much tequila, so many flavors. It's wonderful.
Unknown: It's an amazing place to live.
Yeah.
But let's talk about let's up the stakes a little bit because it'd be one thing if you, you know, loved music and were always perfectly healthy in life. We're going according to plan, but that hasn't been your experience. So maybe you can share some of the things that you've come up against and persevered through
to basically be playing
killer shows on stage with a a broken back, for example.
Unknown: Well, my health has been a challenge for me since childhood.
And
the first really big hurdle well, nuh-uh.
As far as to relate it to music,
in 2014
and the beginning of 2015,
I had a 75%
torn rotator cuff, which is very common.
But because of my,
health background,
I heal at the rate of and I've been told this by several medical professionals,
at the rate of, like, an 85 year old.
So what should be
physical therapy and recovery time of,
let's say,
8 to 10 weeks,
for me, it was,
8 to 12 months.
Unknown: Wow.
Unknown: So,
I got very depressed because I couldn't play, and I couldn't sit and play because the pain was excruciating
leading up to the surgery and then post surgery.
And I did all the work. I did all the PT because I prefer to feel good
and do the work.
But,
my therapist said, you need to find another creative outlet because you'll you're going insane.
So I took a pottery class,
and actually,
that's how I ended up joining the choir.
Because I was like, I have to do I did the pottery thing, and I'm like, alright. It's fine. Yeah. I made a couple of bowls. No Rodin, but
I was like, no. It has to be musical.
Sorry.
So I joined the choir, and I ended up
singing in that choir for, I guess, 6 years or something like that.
So that was that. And then,
I released
my very first solo album, Corona Coaster, with the original SOB and the Dangs.
My two nephews,
last name D'Angelo, hence the name Dangs came,
Pete and Lou.
And,
we worked our asses off. We did it all virtually during COVID. I wrote it all. We recorded it, had
shared Dropbox and the Pro Tools business, and I would I wrote everything, record everything backwards. Right? Bass first, scratch vocals,
then came drums and guitar, and then sometimes I'd have to redo.
But then, I was all excited. Album release,
September of 20
22.
And 2 weeks before the release party, I wake up in the most excruciating pain I've ever had.
And I know I know pain. Believe me. I really have a high threshold.
And
took a few weeks of doctor's appointments and insurance crap
to finally get the MRI to find out that my one femur head had shattered
and the other one was
about to shatter. So
but I didn't find that out until after the album release party, which I was really excited about, and I had to travel back east
to do the album release party with the Dangs.
Traveling sucked,
and that was the worst gig of my life.
I mean, after the first song, I didn't know whether I wanted to burst into tears
or walk out or both.
I was in
so much pain,
and I
took
whatever Vicodin, whatever I could find that I had in the coffers from my shoulder surgery 7 years prior.
And
I was all dopey. I couldn't remember lyrics to my own songs.
I was in so much pain. I I just I didn't lead the band. Like, I the show ended,
and people came
from miles. I mean, like,
drove hours and hours to get there. People I hadn't seen in almost 2 decades
showed up to support,
and it was
horrible for me. I mean
but,
just
just kept going. Like, I got through the show, and
I was like, wow. That was the worst gig of my life, and it should have been the most exciting and positive gig of my life. I just feel
like my whole life, and I think everybody goes through this,
but for me, it just so happens to be all about my health and my body.
I get knocked down. My mother used to call me the weeble wobble whatever. Mhmm. She's like, you constantly keep getting knocked down,
but you always come back up again.
You know? And and I remember my mom's long gone, and she was like, just always remember that. Just
when you're going through hell,
go through it.
That's the only way you're gonna get to the other side. Yeah. So I
now have 2 new hips.
Woo.
I'm like the bionic woman over here. Every time I go to fly and they wanna put me through the scanner, I'm like,
nah, no. I'm gonna be
ringing off buzzers everywhere.
But yeah. And music is always the thing I come back to that just
centers me
and brings me joy and
grounds me. Like, this is
it's all gonna be okay.
You know? Whether it's listening to something
or playing it myself.
Music has always been my healer.
Another blessing of,
loving all genres because I can put on something for every mood,
every
everything because I love it all.
Unknown: I remember you shared a story with me, I think, about your your dad who would kinda have his quiet time in the basement, right, listening to music. Mhmm. Maybe you could just explain that experience because I think some of the younger listeners might not be kind of aware of how
quiet and slow and nondistracting
things used to be and kind of, like, experiencing the joy of that. And I think it's just an incredible example of, like,
how you can live there if you really make it intention.
Unknown: You know? You know what? You're absolutely right. I mean,
oh, you're bringing back some really sweet memories.
So my dad was from England and was raised in a pub
like every other person in England.
So the first one of the first things he did when he
he and my mom bought their house is he built a bar in the basement
with a stereo behind the bar,
kinda like C boys has now where Yeah. They have a turntable behind the bar. Right.
And all his albums were beneath the bar where the classes should be,
and he called it his retreat.
I'm going to my retreat.
See you later. And he would go downstairs,
pour himself a little
snort of something,
and just
drift away. He was a huge jazz head. He was an outright jazz snob, but thank God because he really got me into it.
I love jazz.
And he would just sit there
all by himself
for hours
and just
I remember as a kid, like, we always had to say good night and kiss everyone good night.
And my mother would say, do you say good night to your father? And I'd say, he's downstairs.
She's like, it's okay.
So I'd go to the top of the stairs and yell down, can I come down? He's like, yeah. I was always kind of like, I don't know what I'm gonna find. I don't know what I'm gonna find down there.
And I would walk down the stairs, and he was sitting at the bar
all by himself
with a smile from ear to ear,
just listening to his music.
I got that from him because now I
love moments,
by myself and I have a party with myself, sometimes a full on dance party,
like, for Yeah. Couple hours.
Yeah. And I did the same thing. Like,
my apartment out of college, I had all my albums. I would strewn them out all over the floor
and just have a listening party all by myself and have the time of my life. Don't interrupt me. I wouldn't answer the phone.
Like, this is what I'm doing.
Unknown: And so that's kind of contrasted against, though,
the modern
experience of listening to music. It's usually through, like, Apple Music or Spotify
or one of these
subscription type services
where you don't really have a music library like you used to. It's not, like, strewn about the room, and you can't go through, like, the covers and feel them and smell them. And it's it's kinda lacking that connection that we used to have. Right? Like Yeah. It meant something, and it kinda, like, defined who we were in a way because we got to share that with our friends who came over, or you got to introduce other people to new bands, and you could gift albums to each other, make mixtapes. And it it doesn't it feel
to ask a leading question that that that's really been missing in the past couple of decades, really,
in in this age. Like, I feel so disconnected from
music in the age of Spotify and Apple. And it was supposed to, like, connect everything, but
it feels like it did the opposite. Is your experience kinda similar?
Unknown: Absolutely.
Absolutely. I mean, growing up, that's
you talked about
when the next Aerosmith album was coming out or, you know, whatever. It was like
I was
that seventies show. Like, I all I did was hang out in basements with friends,
spin albums.
And, yeah, it was a lifestyle.
And it was it was about the community, and and it like, you're talking about mixtapes. Like, somebody's going through a thing, you make them a mixtape.
Somebody's birthday,
you make them a mixtape.
I mean, it was real.
Mhmm.
And it was tactile, like what you were talking about. I
to this day, I'd like to read a book, hardcover, like the book. Yeah. Not not Kindle, not any of those. I'm gonna turn the page with my fingers.
Old school. I know. But
there's something about that tactile experience. Mhmm. Reading all the liner notes. Nobody reads liner notes anymore
because they're not there. Right. It's bizarre.
Like, where do you read the the where the credits of who did what and how what was the inspiration for that album? And
I don't know. Yeah. I miss that stuff. And I do think you're right that
the age of streaming and all that has actually
made us all an island of you know, onto ourselves
instead of
a community.
Unknown: Yeah. And we also don't really have much to contribute
like we did before, if that makes sense. Like, if you have a excellent collection on Spotify, that means nothing as opposed to, like, having an excellent collection of of, like, DVDs or CDs back in the day. Like, everyone would go to that house because it had the staff Picks collection. Right? Like, they had everything.
They had Rambo and they had Die Hard. And this you know, and that piece of it, that community based thing is really
it's a shame that these
big companies that have all the money and power in the world haven't
tried to improve it at all. Because I think, like, we can all agree that it just feels worse than it did before, at least more empty, more disconnected.
And it doesn't have to be that way because, like, we have all the technology in the world too. And so, like, it's very exciting that some of these new protocols and platforms and builders are coming together
to try to provide alternatives. But just,
maybe you could share a little bit of your experience with,
how many streams or downloads or listens you've had in the world of traditional music compared to, like, the check that you may have gotten at some point from the music industry, let's say?
Unknown: How many, like, plays I've had in my music?
Unknown: Or just, like, an experience of, like, what how many plays do you need to get to get
paid from the traditional industry
based upon putting out music? Or we can also talk about live gigs and the kind of the economics of what that looks like for a working musician because I think a lot of people wouldn't
under wouldn't think that's how it works when in fact it's yeah. So, anyway, maybe you could just share a little bit of that, the economics of being a musician for online stuff, CD sales, as well as the live live thing we can talk about in a minute. Yeah. Well,
Unknown: to put it into dollars and cents,
among
all the streaming platforms that
I have my one album up on,
I have a total of
somewhere around
let me do the quick math. I carry a 3
somewhere
around
225,000
streams,
something like that.
And I have $19
and change in
the coffers
for said
225,000
streams.
Unknown: Half a tank
of a tiny car
gas? Like, I don't know. What does that pay for now? It's, like, half a bouquet of flowers? Like Nice.
It's,
yeah.
Unknown: I did vinyl though with the album. I did only vinyl. I didn't do c's
because I figured vinyl for, like, the hearty,
old school
music lovers
Mhmm. And then streaming for the rest of the universe because that's what everybody does.
And the the vinyl did okay,
and I think I made
I charged $35
an album.
And my take on that was
with fees and all that. I think I made, like, $22
per album, which I guess isn't too bad.
But,
yeah.
So that's that's a short answer because that's how short the, bank account is
as far as,
compensation
for
music streaming.
Unknown: So, essentially,
225,000
Yeah. Approximately. Like, a quarter a 1000000 plays equals
one
vinyl sale in terms of how much money the musician gets. Right? Yeah. About carrying 3 and and accounting for all that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, similarly, yeah, I got somewhere in the I don't remember. In the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of downloads, and I just got a check for,
it was $10
and had a fee of 2.50
taken out. So I got $7.50,
which was very nice. But often, that's what happens is before the money even makes it to the musician, there are all these fees and intermediaries
and groups and agencies and
live whatever it is. And by the time it gets to the musician,
there are fractions and fractions of a penny left if they're lucky. So what does it look like, though, if you're playing live?
Unknown: Not a whole lot better. Better for sure.
But, yeah, every venue is different as you know. Every venue has a different deal.
But,
at least
all of my gigging life, I've always
left with
anywhere from $50 to $350
in my pocket.
Maybe 1 or 2 times more than 350,
but
then again, I'm not exactly semi famous, let alone famous.
But, yeah, it's,
and that hasn't changed. Right? In the decades I've been doing this,
that has not changed.
Everything else, inflation,
all the things.
And with paying musicians,
it's still the same
rate.
It's crazy.
And if I can just throw in a little bitch session Yeah. Please go.
The one thing that really annoys me
is people that don't
go into a club to see a band when they find out there's a cover charge.
And the cover charge is always nominal. Like,
I can remember
Red Young and his hot horns here in Austin. He is
a legend and he is so talented,
writes all the horn scores
for his horn section.
He's a brilliant, brilliant,
dude and a great b 3 player, organ player, piano player.
And
we used to go support him for happy hour,
at Anton's. He played every Thursday night for a long time.
It was like a $7
cover charge
that he played from 6 to 8, something like that.
And we would be paying to get in, and there would be people walking up saying, oh, we just wanna come in for a drink. We have to pay $7 to do that?
Couple of times, I couldn't keep my mouth shut.
Do you see how many people are on that stage?
There's 9 people on that stage. Mhmm. They're not even getting a dollar each
for your cover charge.
And how much are you gonna spend on your first drink in there?
$18? $12?
I don't depend on what you drink?
Yeah. That's what really gets me. It's like people are willing to spend stupid money
on these high end cocktails.
And then nowadays, let's be honest, even just a beer is a lot of money. Yeah.
They're willing to do that.
So it's the the cost of one drink and sometimes not even
you know, the cover charge is sometimes less than the cost of one drink.
And they
bark about it and don't wanna pay it. And
it's like, there's just no respect for
people up there. It's not the 2 hours they're on the stage
that you're paying for. It's all it took for them to get there.
The years of studying and practicing and and honing in their craft, let alone putting that particular project together,
rehearsing, learning,
and then the time you have to pack up your gear,
hump it to your car, drive to the gig,
hump it the gear into the venue, play the show, hump the gear out. A 2 hour gig is a 5 hour ordeal.
Unknown: First of all, you know, I'm preaching to the choir here. You know all this. No. Keep going. This is great because I most people don't know that this is how it works and that, like, that also doesn't include
any of the time that it takes to build relationships
and the network and trust
to book that gig in the 1st place Yeah. As well as all of the,
promotion,
the and and time and effort that you've had to work to
build your following and then communicate to your following and post to 19 bazillion different social media networks that this show is happening and you promote that. All of those you you add up all those hours and all of a sudden, you know, you're working for every 1 hour you're on stage, maybe 20 hours. Right? I mean, 10 to 20 plus hours, I would say, is is kinda how that math works.
Unknown: Absolutely.
Unknown: Yep. And so the the hourly wage in that case is,
kind of shocking
in a lot of ways. And similarly, you know, my friend Denny, who's been a professional
musician at a very high level out of Nashville for many, many decades,
he shared exactly the same thing. He's like, I've been playing since the seventies, and they used to pay me, you know, at the lower end, 50 or $75
minimum for each gig. And at the higher end, it'd be a, a few $100, maybe even tickle a $1,000 on a really, really good night or for a really, really special gig or or whatever that was.
And that number literally has not gone up since the seventies
50 years, and the amount that our dollar has been devalued.
It's hard to argue about what's going on as as far as that's concerned.
But all of this to say, like, it's getting harder and harder for artists to to, afford a living wage or or be paid for their time. And so we're in need of some sort of separate system than the current one in order to help us solve some of these problems.
So, what has your experience been?
You're you're pretty new to the space of, like, the v for v, Valueverse
thing and these platforms like Wave Lake and podcasting, but what has your experience been,
so far as you just kind of experiment there?
Unknown: I'm excited about it. I really am.
My experience so far has been positive
because
I I'm just starting dipping my toes in the water here,
but
I understand how it works. And
I love the idea that it's a decentralization
of the industry
of the streaming industry.
I love that because I am a rebel at heart, and
I think more people need to be aware of it and get on board. And the more people that do that,
obviously, the more successful the whole concept can be.
You know? I mean, I
I don't know. I'm only on Wave Lake, thanks to you, turning me on to that.
And I I don't even know. I haven't checked in a while, but,
I know that
people,
including yourself, you know, they appreciate your stuff and they,
put stats on your
your your profile for your songs, and I think that's pretty amazing.
And we're we were talking about earlier and the people get to leave comments, so there's a more personal connection.
I love that.
I love that. So, yeah, I'm super excited at this idea,
this concept, not ideas, concept.
Unknown: It's,
just incredible to be in Austin, Texas as well where it's this this meeting of the worlds of music as as well as technology,
and specifically kind of the world of of podcasting with, like, people like Adam Curry out in Hill Country and this whole
network of of people who are building the next versions of the Internet, especially a more decentralized open source version of it. I feel like the timing is really good because so many people are are burnt out on the current version of the Internet. The Internet used to be so fun, whether you're talking about music or or reading blogs or whatever it was. And now it just feels like such
a a slog or it's exploitation
or it's just full of these half truths, and you're just looking for the answer for one question. You have to wade through all this advertising and nonsense and AI generated schlop.
And, we we need to make this a little bit better because we we deserve better at this point. Right?
Unknown: Agreed. In some ways, it feels like
not just going backwards, but going into a place that's
Unknown: downright scary. It's dark.
Unknown: It's really dark because the more you
rely on the Internet for all these things
and the ads and this and that, then all of a sudden you're on everybody's hit list and then you get bombarded with ads and emails that you never asked for, never signed up for.
And it's like they know
well, we've all had similar experiences
where
your phone is listening.
Talk about something and then all of a sudden an ad pops up for Mhmm. Ad
scares the shit out of me.
It really does.
It's just not
what's the tipping point. Like, where where's the line gonna be drawn?
And I don't think there is gonna be a line drawn.
Unknown: Yeah. Well, what about so
we've been kicking around for a while, and we've been for we've been musicians for longer than social media has existed. Right? So what was it like as a musician
in the days before
dancing on TikTok
was a requirement to be a musician. Right? Like, posting 3 to 5 times a day minimum is is part of the record contract. Like, we've come a long way, I guess. But what was it like before, and what do you think of where it's at now?
Unknown: I like the way it was before. And I'll tell you something.
I could do all the social media promotion
that one requires
these days.
And
still,
the most effective
method for me
is I put aside the time and I reach out to people
individually
Yeah. Via text Mhmm. Phone call, email, and say, hey. Doing a show on blah blah blah date. These are the details.
If you're around, it'd be great if you could come. And you know something, Abel?
Almost. I'm gonna say
99%
of the time,
by doing it that way,
I get
positive feedback
and affirmations from everybody saying, oh oh my gosh. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. Count me in.
Even if those same people clicked like
on my social media post about the same stupid show,
but they weren't really paying attention.
But if I send them a text, say,
hey. You know, it'd be great to see you if you could come to the show. It'll be awesome.
Then, yeah, they're there.
I really believe still old school way is the best way until you're, like, huge
where it doesn't take much to get the word out and get the buzz going. But at my level,
I mean,
old school, baby.
Yeah. I'm not dancing on no TikTok video,
Unknown: You know? Well and there's also this disconnect, I think, that you you kinda brought up where
even if you like something on Facebook or Instagram or whatever it is, you see it there and you're just like, oh, yeah. Boom.
You go back through that list on the other end of that and you see, like, all these people liked it. It's like, wow. This person saw that I was surfing in Mexico or whatever. Like, that's cool that, like, my
friend from whenever got to see that. And then you see them a few days later
and,
you know, they're just like, what's going on lately? And she's like, oh, I went down to Mexico. And they're like, oh, I had no idea. You know, it's like all these things. It's like there was actually no
interaction there. Like, it felt like there was and that they saw that you had the shared experience. But when you actually meet them in real life, like, no. You're just kinda, like, bap bap bap. You, like, hit buttons or who knows?
It's it's such a
disconnected way of interacting with people.
Unknown: Classic example of that,
right before my album release show,
And I woke up in a world of
hurt, not knowing what was wrong. Like, it felt like both my legs were removed in my sleep and then put back on the wrong way, like that kind of pain.
I posted something
I was like,
okay. I don't know what this is this time, but,
wow, am I in a lot of pain.
And it just said, like, a few more things. I can't tell you how many people
not only reacted to it, clicked
loved.
Not sorry to hear that or Williams.
They loved that post. Yeah.
Oh my god.
Clearly, you didn't read it.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
To me, that's a classic
Mhmm. Classic example.
Unknown: It's so easy to, communicate the wrong way in that sort of instance. So I'm with you. I think the future of,
of not just music, but but really humanity
is getting back together in person. Because at this point, you can clone anyone's voice.
You can make them say whatever
you want them to say. And that is just such a terrifying thing because it erodes the trust
of humans interacting with other humans and being able to, like, know that it's another human on the other end or it's the person that they thought they were talking to. And so,
I don't think we're far off from a world where, like, we start to really value the in person relationships again. And I think it's about time. You know? It's like the pandemic
was hard on everybody,
and it's been difficult for a lot of us to kind of recover as communities and, like, kinda rebuild that trust once again. But it's happening, and I'm really excited. It feels like the music scene in Austin is starting to pick up again. I'm getting kind of, like, vibes of the last recession, whatever that was. But those were good years for music, you know, and, like, we were talking about 2008, 2009, 2010.
And,
I'm I'm so stoked
to bring out SOB and the dang. So let's talk about how that project came together for you, especially
going from kind of the pandemic and recording
with with different dang to being in real life in Austin with the current,
version of the dangs.
Tell us about that story.
Unknown: Yeah. I mean,
besides the whole debacle of my album release party, that was the first time
actually playing those songs live.
Wow. Because
I wrote them all by myself in a cabin
during lockdown,
do my tracks and then do the editing and get the other tracks. And so there was never that everybody in the same room playing these songs.
So
putting together SOB and the Dangz here in Austin,
first and foremost,
this is my dream band.
So,
I mean, I could not be
any
happier or feel any more blessed than I feel
because I
I not only
wasn't sure I had it in me as far as my energy to do this,
I was like, alright. If I'm gonna do it,
I need
amazing musicians.
But on the same
level of importance,
I need
fantastic humans
because
that's as important to me. It always has been, but COVID and lockdown just kinda reinforced that philosophy for me. Life is too short.
It was really important for me to work with people
that I have mad respect for.
You top of the list.
So,
yeah, I picked up the phone and called Steven Beasley, sax player,
because he and I have been in a lot of projects over the years, and he was on the album. He put a few sax tracks on my album.
Started talking to him and said, you know, I'm really thinking about trying to make this happen again.
And he's like, yeah. I'm in.
And Elsie Love,
bless her,
she had been saying to me, because I played bass with her whenever she came to Austin in the last 6 or 8 years, however many years, and she kept saying to me, you know, I only come through once a year, sometimes twice.
You've got this amazing drummer who you get play really well with, Carl Ryals.
You should
get him on board.
And I felt like I had to get her blessing
even though she only comes through once or twice a year. That's her drummer. Sure. Yeah. You know?
And so once I got that green light,
it was time to start charming Carl and get him on board because yeah. I mean, like, I was so nervous playing with him
with l z the first time
because
I had seen him play with her many times and I was like, oh my god. This guy is amazing.
So I was really nervous.
And
for him to say after, like, that first ring of shows round of shows, he was like,
I'll play with you anytime, anywhere.
You and me are like mac and cheese, baby. You know? Like and we are. Like, we Yeah. We play really well together. So
I was like, shit. If he's not interested, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
He's like the guy, you know.
And then,
reaching out to you after getting Lucas's blessing,
Luke Daniel,
I didn't even have to finish my sentence and he said,
you should totally get in touch with Abel. You know, he'd be perfect.
Like, yeah, he would.
So yeah. It's like, really, I think I that's the wording I used on the website. It's like the the planets aligned,
the universe,
and the angels were shining down on us.
And it all came together, and here we are. And it's, like, magical, I think.
Unknown: Yeah. It really is. I mean Yeah. For me, it's so cool too because,
reconnecting with you and and getting to play together again is totally a thrill, but it's also really amazing and feels like a small Austin world of musicians that, you know some of my first when I first moved to Austin before I was even booking gigs,
I was watching T Bird and the Brakes. So I was watching Beasley play saxophone with them,
and just loving it. And then the Greyhounds was another one of my absolute favorite acts. And turns out Carl was playing with them too. So it's just so amazing to be,
in a band with with people who have been part of a really, in my mind, legendary Austin music scene and part of a tradition of music that's really, really important
to me and and so many of us out there. And so yeah, an absolute honor to to play with you folks. What would you say to to those out there who,
you know, have said that or or maybe they have this dream, but they haven't acted
upon it? Because it took you a bit, right, to to get everything together and really make it happen as well. What would you say to people who
are still not quite there yet in in terms of, like, getting them to take action and make that dream actually turn up in their lives?
Unknown: Never
stop thinking about it, planning for it,
making connections with people, and don't let
any hiccup,
roadblock
get in your way.
Just keep your eye on the future and what it is you really want
and do it because
some very wise person said to me once,
if you're saying that your band won't be as an example, your band won't be gig ready,
road ready for
at least a year.
Well, guess what? If you don't start moving toward that
in a year,
it'll still be a year later. Mhmm.
The year is still gonna happen
whether you're working towards this
dream of yours or not.
So why not work towards the dream?
The time is gonna
pass regardless.
So
keep making connections. Keep making the plan
and stay positive.
That's that's the best advice I could I could say to anyone.
Yeah. Just stay positive and
know you're doing it for the right reasons,
assuming you are, whoever you are.
Unknown: We'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah.
Unknown: Because, you know, your thing,
your project, your thing
could be something that someone really needs. Mhmm. Whether it's a song, whether it's a
a vibe,
whatever it is. I mean
and for yourself, 1st and foremost.
But
know that that's it's a gift that you're ready. You you need to get out there. So
prepare for it, work toward it,
and don't get your knickers in a twist when things
go sideways because things are always gonna go sideways. That's life.
You know?
Just keep
pushing forward.
Have faith. No fear.
That's one of my favorite mottos.
No fear.
All faith, no fear.
Unknown: Stacy, you write songs that actually mean something, and a lot of music
isn't like that. And some people who listen to music might not even take it that way or or know that you can take music kind of seriously.
So as as a writer,
what is it about putting meaning into songs that makes it worth it for you? Like, what is the craft of that look like?
You mean the writing process? Or Yeah. The writing process and also, like, standing for something, I guess, is what that really means. Not just saying something, but standing for something, and I think that you're a really great example of that.
Unknown: Oh, thank you.
I've always tried to do that. Not always, but, you know,
more songs than not, I've tried to do that,
and
it's taken me many years
to figure out how to do it without seeming
judgmental
or preachy.
I've always wanted
to say how I feel honestly about whatever it may be
in a way that could be
identified with and not
offend people
by offending either their intelligence or their sensitivity
or their stupidity, whichever the case may be. You know what I mean? Like Sure.
Like, Lockdown,
Surrender, that song in particular
and with the whole album, even though it's called Coronacoaster
because the virus was first called the coronavirus,
I made a vow to myself that I was not going to actually talk about it in any song
specifically.
I I was gonna talk all around about so surrender,
I was so full of angst like most of us. Right?
Worry, angst,
afraid, all the things
because it was such a huge unknown.
And it was the
misinformation,
and it was the
being told what to do,
and
losing faith in my country
for a minute. Like, what what the fuck are we doing here? Like,
people are dying. This is real.
But then there's the other side of it. Like, I don't appreciate the panic
that was instilled in us and the the fear,
the paranoia.
That's dangerous. That is so so dangerous.
So surrender was all about
it was originally called I won't surrender,
but then I was advised to
not use the words I
won't. I just call it surrender
because that was the whole the lyrics of that song, that's what it's all about. Like, I don't wanna be stuck inside forever. Don't tell me I can't leave my house.
And and even though I know it was for public safety, I I get all those things, but
it was the whole idea of starting to question what's real, what's not real,
and all I know is I miss my loved ones, and I miss
a lot of things like so many of us. And so
that's kind of a a longish answer, but
it's finding the balance of using words
that
you don't spell it out,
intricately,
just
in a roundabout abstract way, but still it's obvious what I'm talking about.
So that's
that's what I've I've been really trying to hone my craft
on with with writing lyrics that have meaning and have a message without
judging anyone, including myself
or offending,
you know, being sensitive to people's feelings and stuff, but also
this might be something you wanna consider, people.
You know? Like
Unknown: so I hope that answers the question. It does. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. Good. Now that said, through the magic of postproduction
Yes. We're I think we're gonna play one of your SOB tunes
here next. So what tune would you like to introduce to put you on the spot?
I feel like it should be Surrender. Yeah. Right? Seeing as that's what I was just talking about. Yeah. Anything more you'd like to add about how that that song came together or how it was recorded?
Unknown: It started with a voice memo,
recording on my phone,
and I was having a dance party. Because I started writing
and I embraced my inner Gwen Stefani,
and I started, like, thumping around the room.
And
it started out as a rumba, and then I was, like, no, man. This is turning into more like a ska, and I'm kinda digging it.
And
and then the more the lyrics started to come, I was like, this is
total
synchronicity
because this is,
you know, that's the right vibe, the ska vibe with the the lyrics of the song.
And, so, yeah, I,
you know, that's how that song
started as did the rest of the album.
The one song that started the album itself, though, was the song I wrote for my mom who passed away in 2010,
and I recorded it on my phone and I sent it to my nephews who she was very close with and they adored her,
and, it was just my bass, my vocals in the cabin
on a voice memo, and I sent it to my sis and her sons,
And they were like, woah. You need to record that, and we'd be honored to be a part of it.
So that's what started
the entire album.
Unknown: It's beautiful. Stacy, thank you so much. What is the best place give a quick plug for SOB and the Danks? Where can people listen to SOB
as well as, I know you got a fancy new website going there.
And, of course, we're gonna be playing together on December 16th at the legendary Antones.
So, give us a quick plug for SOB and the Dangs as well as that show if you could.
Unknown: Absolutely. SOB and the Dangs is well, s o b, the dangs.com
is our website,
but we are on all streaming platforms,
all the non money makers,
Spotify,
Spotify, YouTube, Amazon,
Deezer,
Tweezer,
Smeezer.
Unknown: Yes.
Unknown: And, you know, I'm sure I'm forgetting. So Apple Music, all those things, and Wave Lake,
thanks to you. That's w a v l a k e.
It looks like Wav Lake, but it's Wave Lake. That's right. Yeah.
And Antones, baby, December 16th.
Monday, we start well, you open the show at 7.
Abel, you're doing an acoustic song, and then the Dangs are gonna join you and do a song and jam out with you. And then SOB and the Dangs is gonna take the last few minutes and open that show starting at 7.
Woo hoo. Warming it up. December 16th, Monday, Anton's $10.
$10.
All proceeds go to the bands. What?
Unknown: How's that for promo? That's it. That's it right there.
Stace, the original SOB, the one and only, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for having me. Love you, man.
Thanks for listening to this episode with Stacy McCann. If you'd like to stick around a little bit, we've got a couple of original tunes. This is live at Maria's from earlier this year, an original tune called Surrender
and then Whole Lotta Trouble. We hope you enjoy it.