Alright, Adam. I'll bring you on in a minute. Whoop whoop. Yay. Oscar, we'll bring you on a little bit. Okay?
Thanks, brother. Oscar.
Mhmm. Yay.
Hey. Aloha, love tribe. Guess what?
This is a super special day. It's a fun throwback day. It's a fun look into the future.
It's a fun opportunity to be here now with a wonderful technology
of
the Internet, of Bitcoin, of podcasting.
I have a wonderful panel for us. I have an opportunity for us to meet the Podfather,
the person who has invented,
podcasting. So I've got a couple little fun,
things to share. Check this out. Hold on. Let's make sure this goes, guys.
Can you hear this?
That's all.
Yay.
Oh my god. You guys, this brings me back so many memories of being with my boyfriend in the back of our Ford Fiesta,
making out in high school.
So cool. So let's go here and see who this is. I'm trying to match his hair. On MTV. Well, here's the story. They've been called rowdy,
raunchy, gut level rockers, and the next band that everybody tries to copy. Now, their own record label said that they'll make it if they live long enough. Well, they have, and Guns N' Roses is one of the most talked about bands this year, and MTV caught them live at the Ritz in New York City. So, get ready for a high powered,
loud, high energy, loud, rock and roll loud show as they perform My Michelle, a cover of the Dylan classic, Knocking on Heaven's Door, and, of course, Welcome to the Jungle. Guns and Roses, live at the Ritz is up next.
Oh my god. I love it. You guys, I'm trying to match my hair.
Oh, hold on. Hold on. We
have to,
try to match my hair back to this beautiful guest of ours. I I typically don't write a big long intro for my guest, but this guest is so special,
and it is worthy of me doing this. So I'm gonna actually read it, and I'm I'm just so excited. So
I have the distinct honor and privilege of this fireside chat with someone who is a dedicated, freedom loving,
truth
seeking, business and tech innovator, and badass
visionary culture creator.
Throughout the eighties nineties, Adam Curry was responsible for shaping the global culture as a cutting edge host, VJ, producer, director, and writer for MTV
and Europa TV.
In 2000, he started and sold the Nasdaq company, the digital age agency Think New Ideas.
2000, he also joined forces
with the acclaimed software developer Dave Wyner and brought Internet Broadcasting, aka
podcasting, to life and became
the Podfather.
In 2020, after observing stagnating development and centralization,
Adam and Dave Jones launched the podcastingindex.org
for podcasting 2.0,
currently with over 4,000,000 listings to support free speech and value for value
for free and to so that we could free and separate content creators
from centralized commercial tech and global banking systems.
Today in 2024,
with thousands of episodes under his belt oh my god. You're getting the 10000 hours. Right, Adam?
Adam now produces the award winning,
show no agenda show podcast with John c Dvorak
and is a champion for Freedom Technology.
So please welcome everybody,
my new friend, Adam Curry. Woo hoo. How's it going, Adam? I'm doing good, and you've gotta come clean with this. There's no way you were old enough to have been watching MTV
back when I was on. I'm not buying it. I'm I'm a I'm I'm literally a handful of years away from you, Adam.
Well,
what an intro. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning most people gloss over the Nasdaq company. The people forget that I I started with partners and, and took a company public in, 96,
which,
was quite the experience.
Dude, that's that's monstrous, you know. And I think for all of us, you know, as creators and in business people, like, I don't think people understand how hard that is to do. So Oh, and it's the the listing is one thing, but then all of a sudden, every 3 months, you've gotta
report numbers to shareholders, and you have to have accountability,
and you have to have estimates that are kind of right. I mean, it was
I would not trade it in for anything, but I am never gonna do it again.
Yeah. The system is pretty whack. It is pretty whack. But, like so how do you feel like right now? Obviously,
you know, we're gonna get into a whole bunch of different things in this wonderful
chat here.
So let's talk about,
like, what the heck is podcasting 2.0 versus regular podcasting for new listeners and people who might be out there who are completely brand new to this?
Well, it's it is podcasting. It's just, an expanded version of podcasting. So,
whether you're using podcasting 2.0
or what you know, it no matter what app you're using, the podcasting 2.0
podcast feeds will work in,
in your in your legacy app. But what really happened is,
about 4 years ago,
I've Dave Jones has been a good friend of mine for now 15 years, and we've been working on projects. He lives in Alabama. We only met, I think,
once at that point.
But we met online, not in a dating app, but in, like, a nerd thing we were doing.
And,
and so we were both very interested in RSS, and we actually built an entire
system called the Freedom Controller, which,
which really
was meant to be kind of a personal social media system,
where you could network with other people, you know, analogous
to, and, you know, like a Mastodon or Twitter or even Facebook to a degree, but it would all be based on RSS.
And we call it the freedom controller, and we built it. And and and we both use it today for for different pieces of what we do in our in our regular daily lives.
And we attracted about, I think, 5 other people, to the system. But we loved it, and we've always been just building stuff that we thought was cool. But 4 years ago,
Apple had you know, I noticed that Apple has kind of become the default on ramp to podcasting in 2 ways. 1, if you weren't on Apple, then you didn't have a podcast, which, of course, is on its face ridiculous. But it was kind of true because all of the independent
apps out there were using the Apple
index
to Mhmm. You know, basically get all their information about shows, and we're using Apple's infrastructure, which on one hand was really nice because Apple allowed that,
for free.
But they also had to do that for the in because of the way their their own app worked. But, of course, when it's for free, there's no guarantees, and, you know, they can change anything they want, and they did. They started to deplatform
certain podcasts,
and it's irrelevant what they what they were. No one was breaking the law. It was really politically motivated.
They started messing around a little bit with the API. Certain things weren't returning the expected results.
And, you know, I had just been doing my no agenda show with Dvorak at that point for,
13 years, and I had really I was just using podcasting. I wasn't thinking much about what was happening in the so called industry because there really wasn't anything happening.
And I called up Dave and I said, you know, dude, we've gotta create an an alternate index because
Apple can't be the the boss of all of this. And,
we have to,
in essence, create an open source, open system
with an API that any developer can jump in and access,
and we'll run it value for value, which I know you understand. I'm sure we'll talk about that in a minute. But the basically,
we provide this free of charge
as a valuable service. And if you see any value in it, send us back the value that you get out of it.
So we built the index, podcast index.org,
and an amazing thing happened. Lots of developers showed up, and we really only had 2
two missions here. 1 was to protect free speech. Literally, podcasting is free speech. So we have an index. You can make it taken out of it unless there is some we've had, I think, 1 DMCA
copyright takedown. So there is some if it's if it's if there's law breaking in that regard,
we'll take it down, but there's really no other reason to remove anything unless it's, you know, obviously illegal
by the US constitution
and the laws of the United States where we're located.
So we've really never had a problem with that.
The second thing was there was also at that time 4 years ago, a lot of debanking going on,
and people were being kicked off of systems like Patreon and PayPal and even credit card processors.
Now I
had been introduced to Bitcoin early, early, early on right at the beginning. People were sending me Bitcoin, telling me that this is gonna be the future of money, and I was like, yeah, it's Beanie Babies for the Internet. It's no good.
I did actually hold on to quite a bit of that, which I there's another story we can talk about.
But so I had kind of reengaged a little bit with, with what was happening with Bitcoin because the lightning network had just launched about 10 months prior to that. Mhmm. And, we were in COVID lockdowns and all kinds of nonsense was going on. So I decided to go the path, you know, the Raspberry Pi, set up my own node.
And I was right away, I understood
that this was a way that we could exchange value for value in real time with podcasting because of the instantaneous,
payment,
nature of the Lightning Network
along with a very low fee structure
and, of course, the sovereignty of it. And so
we were able to take the concept of, hey. You're listening to my podcast. Was there any value to you? Send it back. Whatever it's worth to you, just send that back to us. Now the minute you hit the play button, you could actually start streaming sats at any predetermined
amount,
to the podcaster.
And later,
the group at podcast index dot social created,
the concept of a boost where you can send a one nice big payment, add a message to it. It's a boost to gram.
And that was really all that we wanted to do,
or all that we cared about. But the developers came in and said, oh, man. I've been wanting to do transcripts and chapters and person tag and location
and all these different things. And so we said, oh, cool. Then we'll just create you know, we had something called the namespace, which allows you to extend RSS. Any XML
format can be extended with a namespace. Apple actually has the Itunes namespace,
which say they control and and and you can't change anything that is an independent person.
So the namespace was created,
all of that again at podcast index.org,
and we now have several 100 developers,
interested parties, podcasters,
you name it are in there. And, we I think we have 27
features that are that enhance the original podcast
format.
And we have over 70 apps and services that are now supporting it, including some of the biggest hosting companies.
And it's gotten to the point where it was kind of a win,
just for the concept
where Apple,
took the transcript,
tag, which we developed in podcasting 2.0
and added that to their app. Now that's also been added to Pocket Cast and many other podcast apps. So it's a long haul. These things take a long time,
but I think that you'll see more of these enhancements
coming out as we move forward. And, of course, the modern podcast apps, podcastapps.com
is where you can find them.
A lot of them enable this, lightning network integration for value for value.
It's so amazing. How did you get in how did you become such a freedom lover going from, you know, being this, you know, world class VJ ed businessman exiting companies,
you know, and then starting to really be this champion for freedom. Because, obviously, free speech is super important. Self expression is super important. We don't wanna get debunked. We don't wanna have, you know, duct tape over our mouths as human beings. Like, when was the did you have a tipping point or some kind of an that you're like, I gotta get into this? Because I've always been like a hole puncher in, you know,
conspiracy theories, and I'm like, that just doesn't sound right to me. You know? And I'm a little,
like and my Spidey sense is like, that sounds bullshit.
So did you have any kind of thing that you're like, damn it. I need to get going in this direction now. Yes. It was it'll be 17 years ago in October when John Sidivorak and I started no agenda, and that was really predicated
on 2 things that happened. I was living in the UK at the time,
and,
the Lisbon Treaty
was
kind of supposed to be the constitution for the European Union.
All the member states were supposed to sign on to that, and then Ireland said, no. We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, it was like, no. Do over. Do a new vote. You didn't you didn't vote right. And then, of course, they voted yes. And I started to look at this Lisbon Treaty, and the things the media was,
talking about were really,
we'll all have the same money, which, by the way, is a big deal when you all have the same money moving from independent sovereign,
fiat currencies.
And you we we don't need a passport. You can just walk across the borders, whatever you wanna do. But there was so much more going on in the protocols and things that were attached to this, to this, Lisbon Treaty
that I just saw the media really gaslighting people by omission.
Simultaneously,
there was a book that came out called Legacy of Ashes by a former New York Times,
writer,
Tim,
Tim Weiner or Weiner, I think it is.
And it was about the CIA.
And, man, this was quite the expose. And my uncle, Donald Gregg,
he had been very high up in the CIA even back to the OSS days.
And I've I've always had a good relationship with him. He was the national security adviser to,
Bush senior when he was vice president
and in charge of the CIA, and, you know, he he Iran contra. He was in a lot of this stuff.
And so I called him up, and I said, uncle Don, I'm reading this book. Is this true? And he says, yeah. That's pretty much the way I remember it. So, you know, that just kinda blew my mind, and,
this was around
2007.
Ron Paul was running for president. Of course, he had the original tea party. So,
all of a sudden, I started to read books like end the Fed and started to understand what the Federal Reserve really was because I'd just been in show business. You know, I just I was a VJ. I was a radio guy. Yeah. I was a top 40 DJ.
And, also, I Alex Jones was streaming on the Internet at the time.
So I you know, you listen to some Alex Jones stuff in the old videos you used to put on Google video before there was a YouTube.
And, you know, it just blew my mind. And so I started to
deconstruct the media knowing a little bit about how media works, having been in it and having been part of, in essence, the the whole system,
and Dvorak having been in the system more from a publishing side, but also radio and television.
You know, we were a match made in heaven. We're like, damn, this is nonsense. And so we just started
pulling media apart, and and and we're doing it for ourselves initially for months. We'd call each other on Skype, and we talk once a week. And then I think John had the luminous idea of, hey. You know, we should record this and, and put this out as a podcast. And we did, and, and that's how it started.
Isn't that the best? I know some of these conversations lead to these big ahas, like, oh, yeah. Maybe someone else might wanna hear this this stuff too.
You know, obviously,
we're we're dealing with a lot of censorship right now. We've got, you know, the samurai thing that's going on, and they've just are trying to determine that, you know, code is not protected speech. We're dealing with Alex Jones having to sell his
assets supposedly to go pay off this
this lawsuit. We're dealing with all the nonsense of, you know, censorship that's going on with, you know, posting memes in California or in in the UK or wherever.
You know, it's it's it seems like, you know, for those of us who are very, very interested in fighting for our freedom and for the next generation and hopefully for all the generations to come, like, I was just thinking yesterday, like, what should I be working on that I'm gonna be happy about in a 100 years from now? Like, what am I gonna be proud of that I put my my thumbprint of energy on? And it's it's freedom. It's freedom technology. It's freedom technology. It's freedom technology. And so, you know, how do we, as podcasters and people who are listening who maybe wanna start a podcast or wanna start getting their voice out there and they wanna start debunking things, like, how would you offer some,
guidance for them to to cover their butts, you know, and then also still be honest and true about what they wanna talk about or what their missions are in life?
Well, that's a very decent question. The,
the the immediate answer is you do not want to build your
audience on a platform,
certainly not one that you don't control. So thinking that you're gonna upload to x or to Facebook or to YouTube or Rumble even, doesn't matter where, if you don't control it, then you don't control it. You don't own it, and then you can be taken down at the whim of the platform owner and controller. So
having your own RSS feed is truly the rock solid syndication
format
that you can control. You control what goes in there. You control,
how it goes out.
And,
you know, there is a a very big
universe of applications and services and and apps that can ingest that. And, you know, those can come and go, but they're all completely interoperable. So, you know, you can be using Podverse or Fountain or CurioCaster
or podcast guru or podcast addict.
You know, it it really works everywhere,
and it's it's a complete distributed
decentralized
system.
Even the hosting companies are this you know, there's been they kinda slowed down now, but for the past 5 years, there's been many,
studies done by universities about podcasting. And, oh my god, this this is where the most horrible things are said, and we have to moderate this somehow, but there's really no way to moderate it. You know, you can only do it at the Apple level or maybe through Apple, and that's the beauty of it. There's there there is really no way to deplatform
someone who's using RSS for a podcast,
is using the lightning integration
for,
for payment.
You know, we even
have a system called IPFS,
which is, you know, it's not our system, it's the interplanetary
file system.
And we've integrated that now with podcasting. So you can go to ipfspodcasting.net,
and you can host your feed and your files
on this, you know, virtual,
storage system
that, you know, it can't be taken down. I mean, this that's the main thing. That's the number one thing you want to do is make sure that you're protected in that manner,
because I believe all speech is just free speech. You know, it's this this concept of hate speech. It's all nonsense.
You know? There's there's also no laws against it. So,
that would be the first step.
I think that's super important. And I think for a lot of us who are not ultra techie like me,
it's important to, like, how do we have little step by step, okay, dip my toe in over here,
dip my toe in here. Okay, cool, I got a Bitcoin wallet. Okay, cool, I set this thing up over on Podcasting Index or wherever. It's very,
it can be a little daunting for those of us who aren't coders and those of us who are, you know,
be just No coding experience necessary. I mean, this is what's so beautiful about the decentralized nature is there are literally
thousands of podcast host.
Now you can
what's nice about RSS is you can write your RSS feed in notepad if you want to. I mean, it's literally that simple.
But,
we have what I call podcasting 2.0 native hosting companies like podhome.fm
Yeah. Of course. Arsysblue.com.
Mhmm. And, you know, these guys are they have all the things built in right there. They make it super simple.
They're making an interesting use of some
computer
generated text systems. I waiver to call that artificial intelligence.
So you upload your your your file.
A transcript is pulled from that.
From that transcript, the system then suggests titles, suggest chapters,
chapter,
even art. Artwork can all be suggested. So it really takes a lot of that initial,
understanding,
and and the hurdles and the, you know, kind of the barriers to entry takes it out of it
while giving you all the things you need to be completely 2 point o compliant. So this is it. And this has all been done in the past 4 years. It's amazing what has happened.
And do you feel like, you know, since we're dealing with a lot of open source mindset, you know, and decentralized
mindset because of the Bitcoin community and free and open source development and software, like, this is new to me over the last since COVID. Like, I've been in, you know, learning about Bitcoin and the whole rabbit hole since 2021.
And,
and it just completely opened my eyes and my mind to, like,
wow. This is how people can collaborate and work together and move the needle forward.
And I'm a, you know, obviously, an old DJ and went to Burning Man a whole bunch. And so I always you know, obviously, I love the Woodstock generation, and I'm like, hey. I'm a deadhead, an old hippie. Right? Let's go. Were you at Woodstock too? No. I was not at any of the Woodstock. I was there. It was muddy. It was very, very muddy. It was bad.
It it was mudstock.
It was. Yeah. But but, like, I think about, you know, the Woodstock generation and the Burning Man generation and all of these people who are out there that wanna go, like,
shift the world, you know? And I think, you know, the technology that exists today with open source,
is so important for people to start thinking, like, this is how we collaborate, you know, together and not this top down centralized approach. I mean, certainly, there's certain things that need to be centralized in the world, but there's other things that truly benefit from this open source, let's just all kind of tackle it together mindset. And it's been really,
it's just been transformational for me spiritually and mentally and as a business person, you know, and thinking about, like, wow. This is how people can collaborate. And it doesn't have to be, Even in the music industry, I mean, you're obviously old school music industry. You think about the gated
walls of, you know, the old record labels and how everything was here. It's like now you can make full songs and symphonies on your phone, and you can put it out there, and you don't need a label to,
you know, get your music out. Certainly, you need distribution, but it's like the creative process has been, like,
nuclear bombed of, yes, anybody can go do this. So,
how has your creative process, you
know, blossomed over the years as the Podfather? Like, what's it like? Tell us what your your creative process looks like, Adam.
My creative process, Usually, I pray to god and say, god, give me some ideas here, please.
And he does. You know? I I can't really claim the discovery or invention of podcasting. I was just a vehicle for use there. I'm quite confident of that.
What,
well, the creativity, of course, is,
is
completely open. You can do whatever you want. I I come from the, you know, from a restrictive,
you've got an hour, you've gotta hit 3 commercial breaks, you got the news at the top of the hour. That is the world I came from. And, also, you can't say that. You can't say that. You can't say that. You can't say that. And over and over time, you just learn, you put in filters and you can't say that. Once those filters are removed, it's great, and it's also
you gotta be careful because you can, you know, you can say stuff that is just not helpful to whatever you're doing.
What I now open source by itself, of course, is not new, and it precedes Bitcoin.
But
running an open source project like podcasting 2.0 is, I would say, one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my career
because we
and and we set up a Mastodon's
server activity pub
for this very reason. And, typically, these things are run on GitHub,
and someone has power in GitHub, and you have some other people who have power. And I find it a very restrictive environment for great collaboration
because you just have these very, very long threads.
It's important because GitHub issues and and,
and proposals, you know, you you need some kind of process for how you're gonna actually get something into the project or into the software or into the protocol, into the format.
But having this kind of more free form
conversation,
which everyone is quite familiar with,
has really worked very well. And we we do police ourselves.
We because, I mean, you look at this group, it's all kinds of backgrounds, nationality,
sexuality,
gender, creed, religion. We just don't talk about that. We're here to talk about podcasting. That's all. And we do a pretty good job of doing just that.
So, you know, there's never I don't think there's ever been any kind of flame or anything. Whereas GitHub sometimes get a little bit heated.
But what I love about it is that we just
said, you know, here's our here's our thing.
Come on in. And, you know, along came an entire orchestra.
1 guy brought a banjo. Someone's got a zither. Some dude's playing the spoons, washboard.
So and and but everyone had kind of their own thing that they wanted to,
wanted to accomplish. But here's where
this is where I think Bitcoin brought us together.
When we introduced the value for value payment system,
we also put in something called splits
So that you can, as a as a, a content producer, you can put in your feed, in your RSS feed.
If someone's paying me,
I want
these percentages to go to these different wallets.
So if it's just me, give a 100% to me, but I probably I have a cohost, so take 40% from me, 40% from my cohost,
5% for
the person who promotes our show,
and 5% for my mom. She lent me the money for the gear or whatever.
And those will actually be done in 4 individual payments in real time.
So many app developers
were able to, you know, give away their software for free, which is kind of the expectation
as certainly with with podcast apps or most apps. People don't really like paying for apps if they can get away with it,
and say, hey. You're getting this app value for value.
So every payment you make, I'm going to take 1% or 2%,
or I'll waive that fee if you, you know, if you purchase the app or subscribe to the app. So we put the value for value right into that system. And it all doesn't just work for apps. It works for,
the IPFS network that I mentioned earlier. You know, a split goes to that network to keep the person
who, who maintains that, keep him motivated and excited. No one's getting rich off of it yet. Yeah. But there there is money flying around. I mean, there's tens of 1,000 of dollars a week floating around, the value for value networks.
And, and you were talking about music. So when we introduced
music,
which has always been something I wanted to do was play music on podcasts
Mhmm. Which has always been impossible from a licensing stand standpoint
because, you know, you have to have
a performing rights license,
either from ASCAP, BMI, or both.
So that, you know, a portion of your revenue goes to the songwriter, the composer,
then you have all kinds of sub
rights
organizations for the for the
the the performer, etcetera. And and you literally cannot
get a license for that because a podcast
is,
yes, it's a performance, but it's also a mechanical
right because you bake it into an MP 3 that's downloaded on someone's device. So now there's a whole different set of rights holders who pop up. So that was never going to work,
and we came up with a concept of the, remote item. It's just a technical term, but the idea is if I play a song on any of my podcasts,
I tell the app, again, through my through my RSS feed, from this time code to that time code, pull in all of the information and data
from that song, which is also on a podcast feed, including their payment information.
So now payments that are coming to me are being rerouted to the artist. And this has really kicked off an amazing revolution,
with the advent of,
players like,
LN Beats, but also Wave Lake as a hosting company, and the aforementioned,
RSS Blue.com and Pod Home. They also are offering,
this type of service hosting service to musicians. Because when you think about it, there is no
technical difference between a podcast feed that has an MP 3 in it with an hour long discussion
versus a podcast feed with an MP 3 in it with a 3 and a half minute song. Technically, there's no difference. So you can use this for anything, same for audiobooks. And so we're really trying to expand this this universe and get people's head in a different spot,
because
we have what I call the podcast industrial complex
who have just basically tried to jump in and say, alright.
You know, we're gonna do this all on advertising. And as long as someone has headphones on and a video, it's a podcast, even if it's on YouTube,
fine.
People can go and try and and build their audience there. But, you know, see my rule number 1, don't build your audience on a platform. Build it on your own feed with where you have control over what's happening.
I love that. Do you do you feel like,
like, remember when obviously,
you know, streaming was starting to happen, you know, when Spotify was coming in and and, you know, people were like, oh, we're not gonna buy CDs anymore, but then the record labels were freaking out. Like, what do we do now that these, you know, streaming companies wanna start coming in? Obviously, we had all the the the pirate streaming, and so the consciousness of the industry
was terrified. Right? And they thought this is gonna be the worst thing ever. How are we gonna make money? And, obviously, everything has shifted. So now we've got, of course, the Spotifys, the, you
know, the the Apples, the Amazon, everybody doing their streaming music and whatnot. And so
do you feel like, you know, we're at just kind of the tip right now where
labels and artists and lawyers and producers and everybody who's got their mind in the old, you know, paradigm
are gonna start catching,
fire, you know, and moving forward. Because I think to me, like, if I were Spotify or if I were Apple or wherever, or if I were the record labels, and then there was this little thing that we could put into the opportunity for,
you know, whether it's podcast listeners or music listeners, any kind of content, you know, I think of content 2.0.
If they have this opportunity to put this on their platform so that the artists can get these streaming tips,
like, I wanna keep my artists out of McDonald's flipping hamburgers. So to me, that would be ultra beneficial
from that lens that we're pitching these, you know, these old dinosaurs to say, look. This is the future, and we're gonna
eliminate paperwork for you guys. And it's just gonna, like, kind of have all these yummy machines doing what they do best in the background. And so do you feel like we're we're at the beginning?
Fuck those guys.
It's not about the guys. It's about the artists, though. Yeah. But this is my point. Okay. Spotify, Apple Music, the industry owns that. The the owners of Spotify are
the labels and the publishing companies. And by the way, I'm sorry, Lord. I didn't didn't mean that. I couldn't help I couldn't help. Sometimes you gotta use the f word. I love f They're never going to get it. They're never going to give up their their system.
Spotify doesn't really make any money because
they are at the behest and ownership
of the, of the publishing company. So the only way to really make it happen is if people stay sovereign,
keep their own publishing rights, don't give that away,
and just use these modern systems.
And I I don't like the term tips because
this is value for value. It's very different.
A tip is something you add on top of a service that you liked extra, you already got paid for. So there's no payment here. It's all value for value.
And we've seen great successes with this. It's all very small, but the future of all media is small. No longer do you have to have,
you know, a minimum 10,000
downloads to get advertising or a minimum of 5,000
authenticated
streams a month to even be considered for getting a payout from Spotify.
You just need a 100 or 200 or maybe a 1000 people who like what you're doing and are willing to support it. And, you know, if you ask,
you will be given. I mean, this is just a fact, but you the you can't just sit around waiting for someone to say, oh oh, yeah. I remember I can give you a tip. No.
Here's my music.
If you like it, please support me. You will be amazed
how that works. It is it is and you also have to live by it. I mean, I'm always sending value off to anywhere, you know, and then surprise, surprise, it comes back tenfold. You know, you can't give it away fast enough almost.
So,
no, we're at the tip of a revolution
in decentralized
media,
which means it's going to be small.
And so no agenda has been around for 17 years. We're running about a 1000000 people who,
who consume it on a monthly basis.
We don't even call them listeners. We call them producers
because you need to help us produce this show. I can't afford
producers.
There you go. So there's a great example. That artwork,
as a part of the No Agenda Art Generator,
the website No Agenda Art Generator was built by sir Paul Couture.
He's been maintaining it for at least 15 or 16 years, maybe maybe the full 17. He's upgraded it three times in the process. And while we're doing the show live, artists are uploading these pieces of art. We have 20 or 30 pieces to choose from,
and and we can use that right away when we publish the show. I mean, yeah, there you go. So
it's it's amazing what people are these are all the ones that won. There's a lot of them that,
that are just no good, but we also
review it on the next show. Say, hey. Here's why we didn't choose this, this, or this, which most artists never get to hear the negative feedback.
So that's all when we say value for value. You can contribute to us with time, talent, or treasure. Treasure is obvious. Time and talent is what you're seeing right here on the screen.
It's so amazing, Adam, because this reminds me I don't know. I'm like I said, I'm a deadhead, and so,
I'm an everything head, but definitely deadhead for sure. Back in the day when you were ordering, you know, your mail order tickets, you know, in the eighties Did you see him at the Sphere? Did you go to Vegas? No.
I don't I can't I can't talk about it. I'm like Oh, man. I went through a month of depression because I had to miss it. So did you go? Oh, that's too bad. No. A friend of mine did all of the the video stuff, and Oh my god. She she told me how it worked. And, I mean, it was terabytes of data. It was quite
quite amazing what they were doing. Yeah. Immersive experiences are, like, one of my biggest passions, and I believe, you know, they can definitely transform your consciousness. They transform
the ability for us to connect with each other. And so I I've I've been passionate about this since the late nineties when I was, you know, a Burning Man for the first time and in a dome. And we started a whole nonprofit thinking we're gonna build domes all over the world and interconnect us and have holograms and beam us up. We're all gonna dance together. Yeah. And we're gonna, like, bring things together. Baby. Yeah. We're gonna change the world on the playa. I know. Right.
And so, oh, man. But but in the old days, you know, when you're ordering your Grateful Dead tickets, you would decorate the the the envelope, you know, and it had to be a certain size envelope. And so the artwork that was submitted, you know, they have this gorgeous collection of just the most beautiful artwork of all the deadheads because they were like, pick me. Pick me. You know? You know? But this totally reminds me of that. You bring up a very interesting point.
When we went to the CD is when it really started, but once we went to,
the iPad and and iTunes,
2 things that were really destructive took place. 1 is we completely lost the whole idea of the album cover,
the liner notes.
I mean, you know, and and by the way, a double album, very handy. I mean, I used to separate my stems and seeds on Franklin Comes Alive, you know, those important stuff.
But we all they also unbundled the album,
which made, you know yeah. You might have only heard the the 2 singles on the album, but you bought it to listen to it all in order the way the artist
initially intended.
And and that got unbundled and pulled apart. And,
so it really destroyed a lot of the original business model. And what we're seeing now, I think,
is,
with the types of technologies that we're using,
lot of that is coming back, but now you actually get to participate in the process.
So you can you can help make the the cool envelope that the band might actually do something with. You know? People are, you know, with the advent of stems, people are contributing to the music. There's so many things that are happening.
And once we can get past the idea of I need to be Taylor Swift or Beyonce, which guess what? You're not because you gotta go through the satanic rituals, and you don't wanna go there.
So, you know but,
for 17 years, these 2 old white dudes had been making a living. Our kids went through school, most of them. Someone didn't wanna go.
You know, we we're not billionaires. We're not 100 millionaires. We're not 10 millionaires.
We have a
nice existence,
and we do it with our audience. If we suck, they punish us right away.
If we go off track because they don't have to support us. They don't have to support us with time, talent, or treasure. So it keeps everything in balance,
and,
the value that people receive from the end product
is clearly enough for us to continue doing what we're doing. This is the future, and that is a very deadhead type Burning Man experience. Although, I think maybe old Burning Man, not current hipster burning man.
But you know what I mean. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And and it is software
and pod
podcasting. My friend, Moe,
did this fantastic series, a 100 episodes, MoFAX with Adam Curry, as basically just
black American guy, white American guy, sit down, talk about stuff, talk about all the issues. This is what Springsteen and Obama tried to do, but that was very phony and and and fake.
And Moe says, I think correctly, he says, podcasting is hip hop. Said, it is hip hop.
And I think it's true, and we've just added some extra bits so that you can make money or,
exchange value a little bit more easily,
thanks to the lightning network and Bitcoin and the whole ethos that goes along with that.
Yeah. I think it I love how podcasting is hip hop. I like that philosophy because I think we can do anything we want, really. That's right. Like, it's a it's a hybrid. It's it's mixed media,
you know, and and I agree. Like, when I used to DJ playing records, you know, that was obviously
the bomb, and you had it was a whole different culture. Like, if I was, you know,
on Thursdays, I had to drive up to LA to this record store because that's when they got their shipment, and I had to go grease this guy. And Girl, I hear you. This. You know what I mean? And then, man, don't give me the picture disc. It sucks. The the quality is never I totally I
disc. But it was, like, so much fun, and then it was just this, like, little competitive y kind of fun thing. Like, I got the last copy. You know? But, like, now
everything is, like, ubiquitous and throw away, like, with digital to some degree. And so I think the consciousness
of,
of our consumption has gotten to that degree too. And so when you think of, like, you were saying, you know, listening to the album from start to finish as it were meant to be played. Right? And we've lost that, and I think the younger generation,
has missed out on that a little bit. So I think for those of us who are creatives, you know, in any field, you know, if you're a creator, you're a creator. You know?
It's it's up to us to have a little more fun, especially us geezers to say, like, hey. This is kinda how you can take people on a journey. Right? Instead of just, here's your little microdose,
you know,
15 second thing to get you high. You know? And so so it's kind of fun. What would you say to new creatives, new artists, new podcasters who are coming up, like, to, you know, how how to nurture their creative soul and their creative spirit?
First of all, start. Just start. Just get going.
What we've seen so we have this amazing thing that that started
almost at the beginning of the podcast
called no agenda stream. No agenda dot stream.
And it's very simple. It's a 24 hour a day,
audio stream,
and it has a chat room attached to it, which is an IRC server. And IRC is I mean, that that dates back way before podcasting,
you know, way before Twitter or Mastodon.
It's kind of this rock solid, robust, tried and true system.
And,
the so when we produce our podcast, we do it live on Thursdays Sundays,
and we have what I then it turns into the troll room then. We just name it differently.
So you can do whatever you want. It's ephemeral, you know, you can you can yell at me or whatever. But usually, I get good one liners, people fact check stuff, or have additional information.
But what has really happened is a lot of these,
people who were participants
in, in the No Agenda
Nation
said, you know, we're gonna do our show. So we have all these different,
you know,
personalities
within the universe of No Agenda
who started their own podcast, and they're also doing them live. And, you know, when you when you boost, now we have, you know, all kinds of sounds that are triggered.
The boost shows up in the chat,
and it's just all these fantastic little things. But it it went from, you know, a stream of existing podcast to a stream of some podcast, but a lot of live stuff. And it's an active 24 hour a day community.
There's always 100, sometimes thousands of people in there,
And,
you know, it's its own little
microcosm
that is completely self supporting,
which is is great. It's it's kinda like deadheads in a way. You know, it's not a huge universe, but it's big enough for people to
supplement what they're doing, promote what they're doing. A lot of people have books or businesses or, you know, we've got one one person,
Texas hot glass. She makes pipes and bongs and and and flutes out of glass.
And,
and, you know, and so people start buying her products, and and, you know, she's supporting the shows, and people are supporting her work.
You know, this is again, it's
it's very hard for people to not think I need to be Joe Rogan
because you're not gonna be. And by the way, you may not want to be because that he's working very hard. He works a lot and talks to 4 or 5 people
a week.
And while it may look fantastic, there's only so much room for that.
Everybody has something they're an expert at. Talk about that. Everyone has a musical style that they love. Do that.
Don't try to be Taylor or Beyonce or be yourself.
Totally.
And and, you know,
you will find people, and, you know, it may surprise you how many show up and how many are willing to support you. I think it's so important. A lot of people, you know, we've got imposter syndrome. Right? And then we think, like, uh-oh. Am I good enough, or should I be? Who am I to hold the microphone, or who am I to do this? And it's like, you are God's child.
You are the one and only you. Amen. There's no other version of you that ever has been or ever will be, and do not ever go try to go fit into someone else's mold because that is an insult to to your creator. And so to me, I think it's so important, and I love that advice for all of us, you know, and whether you're a business person. I think everybody's a creator. If you can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you're a creator.
You know? But, like, I think about a thousand true fans, right, with Kevin Kelly. A lot of people, like you said, they get hung up on the, like, I need to be Joe rail Joe Rogan or Adam Curry or whoever, and it's just, like, imagine if you literally had a room of a thousand
people who loved what you did, like, in physical time. Like, that's a huge room. That's a great club. That's a great show. That's a great talk. Like, you would be so stoked to, like, give them your best all the time. And so those numbers games that are out there, they're all nonsense. You know? And so it's, like, find who loves what you do
and love them back with the most authentic version of yourself in any way. And let them help you. You'll be amazed how much help you can get from those 1,000 people. And when I look and we have meetups, sometimes
2, 300 people.
People self organize. No agenda meetups.com,
another website we didn't build. Sir Daniel built that. And we have at least 10,
meetups going on around the world every single week, and people just show up. It's producer organized.
It could be 2 people, could be 10, it's 50, it's a 100. They meet regularly.
They create a connection, which, of course, connection is protection.
And they and and sometimes even new creative endeavors, businesses, and and relationships have come out of those meetups. This is this is what turns me on, is when people are
so
entrenched in the culture they have created. Yes. But I you know, we didn't make up all of our words and our little language that we have that came from from the from the people who participate.
And and don't be afraid to to to take some creative input or creative work,
that that they're sending because it there's some some beauty in this loop that goes way beyond what we used to have, which is,
WHCC, caller 100. You just won a t shirt. What's your favorite radio station? Z100.
Okay. Thank you. You know, that's that's old fashioned.
Yeah. No. I think I'd love that, and I really think about the,
you know, like I had said in the intro, you are
a visionary culture creator.
And it's like, what is culture? You know? Culture is connection. Culture is community. Culture is consciousness. And so, you know, what are these new ways that we can come together? And so I'm listening to a book by, Ali Abdaal. It's called Feel Good Productivity, you know, and he's talking about,
he used to be a doctor and he turned into this super productivity guy. And, I have ADD, so I need help being productive sometimes and being organized, you know. But but he was talking about one of the things that really helps people get things done is that that feeling, that sense of ownership.
You know? And so when we have a sense of ownership on a team versus there's somebody telling us what to do, like the anyway, we were just just listening to it yesterday, but, you know, he was, like, saying when you have peer to peer,
work ethics
versus top down work ethics, the peer to peer work ethics always thrive, and they're happier, and they get better results. And so I think about, like, the culture and the community that you've been building over the years.
It's just so cool that you call people producers
because it's not like, oh, you're just a listener, and I'm here and you're here. It's like, no. We're all here, and we're all doing our things. And so that's the energy that I get from what you just said.
It it's really
pretty cool stuff, man. Wow.
I wanna can I ask you about,
what happened 2 years ago? And happy birthday, by the way, sir. Thank you. Yes. That's a really, really impressive birthday. So. Yes. Dude. That's super good.
What happened 2 years ago? And, I was listening to you and Joe Rogan talking about your, you know, trying to debunk a conspiracy theory, and then now all of a sudden,
a former atheist is now rocking rocking god.
Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I was an atheist. I was just, you know, more agnostic.
Somehow, they turned into atheist,
because I was not not against god or against the universe. But Cool. Cool.
You know, I there we go. So There you go. Now the boostograms are coming through for me. Thanks, Chad. So there's a sound triggered when there's actually sending value to the show. Right, Chad.
The,
I I looked up one day and said, woah.
All these dudes around me that I'm working with, they're Christians.
Mhmm. What's wrong with me?
And what's what is what is it going on with this? And I am a conspiracy therapist. So I needed to take a look at what this was because it's kind of a big one. You know, this is God and Jesus. Mhmm. And I started to approach it just like I approached 911 or JFK
or the moon landing or whatever you whatever,
you know, COVID,
you know, I just approached it in the same manner. I started reading, and,
I talked about it on one of my podcasts and people started sending me books.
And, an important one was
evidence that demands a verdict.
And I and within 2 weeks, I'm like,
okay.
I'm I'm sold. You know, this this Jesus is real. God is real. He died for his sins. He he came back.
He he rose up,
and,
I had a lot of beautiful things going on at the same time.
My wife was on this journey at the same time, and we also found a church here, Bridge Church in Fredericksburg.
But I will say that what also real and this is Dave Jones actually sent me this. It was an article, a series of articles by Naomi Wolf,
who you know, Naomi Wolf, very leftist, feminist, you
know, hoity toity type writer. Mhmm. So not at least that was my impression of her throughout the years. And she has started writing these these substacks,
how
she
was at one of the dinner parties on the upper east side, and she heard these bankers talking
about what they were going to do to a certain group of people in a country and just screw them, like and, you know, just
not having any humanity in their conversation.
And for her,
this was a
a real tipping point because she said, you know, I know these people. They're not evil people.
There is an evil that has taken over them in this regard.
And her conclusion
was the same that I was coming to.
If you have such great wickedness and evil in the world, there's gotta be a counterbalance
to that. And that, of course, is the good. That is God, Jesus Christ, the holy spirit.
And,
you know, I just a whole bunch of people came into my into my world.
And,
you know, as I started reading as I started to learn how to pray, you know, songs became clear to me. Like, Stevie Wonder on the songs in the key of life has this great song, just go have a talk with God. And I never really understood it. But, you know, now I'm like, oh, if you feel your life's too hard, just go have a talk with God. I'm like, oh, okay. I get it.
And, you know, once you build a relationship with Jesus Christ and with god, which sounds real funky hoity toity if you're not a believer and you're hearing this for the first time, like, Curry's gone off he's gone off his rocker.
You're not alone. There's a lot of people out there who are like this. And, there's so much that I get from, from scripture
and from my relationship with Jesus Christ.
And it it just works throughout my entire life, my work. Fantastic things are happening.
Every day, I put on the whole armor of god. I'm good to go,
you know, so I can I can withstand anything that's incoming?
And, I just try to always be
kind, gentle, loving.
You know, I
man,
social media is the devil's playground. You know, it's very hard
to to look at that and and, you know, as you so quickly want to respond. And, you know, James has taught me over and over again, be quick to listen, slow to speak, even slower to get angry. Yeah. All of these things just make so much sense. And if you stay in the word,
a minimum of 4 times a day,
the statistics are amazing.
You know, people who just go to church and, you know, read their,
you know, their,
their bible app.
It's not quite the same as being in the word for 15 or 20 minutes every single day. Once you get to 4 times a day, it's like the the numbers are crazy.
Like,
divorce rate, you know, drops down to 10%.
Drug and alcohol
addiction drops almost out of sight. All these things
change.
And so I guess you would say if if you see someone with a Bible that's falling apart,
their life probably isn't.
Oh, I love that. Oh my god. I think about, you know, people who pray together stay together. Go. And,
right? And
and my son, you know, has really been getting into Jesus over the last year or so, and I've I'm very spiritual. I believe in God. I believe in many stories. I believe in the lessons, and, you know, I believe it is all about love. Obviously, that's my name. I literally changed my name to Valerie b love after my divorce because that was, like, what's my mission in life? It's to be love, not to do love, not to give it. It's to feed. And so, you know, that's always been something that's, you know, been in my heart and as my mission as a human. And, you know, my son started getting into, you know, reading the Bible and Jesus, and I was just kind of like,
And then I was like, well, let's do it together, You know? And I'll I'll start reading with you, and I want you to teach me, you know, because you always learn best what you teach. And so it's been a really beautiful journey for him and I on a spiritual path because, you know, he wasn't vibing with the other things that I was, you know, dropping.
You know? And so I was like, okay. Why don't you lead the way? And it's just been this really beautiful connection for us. And so I think about, you know, however you know, it's funny that you say social media is the the devil's playground. I was literally
yesterday afternoon, I was like, I took all the apps off. I'm about to put x back on my phone.
Okay. You're only doing it for promoting the summit tomorrow, Val. Take it back off. And I love I love the thank God for Bitcoin group. Yes. Oh my god. I don't know if you've read the book.
Haven't yet. In the movie, have you seen the film? Yes. Of course. Of course. Of course.
But, you know, there's something there. You know, there's always this,
mark of the beast, and people think it's gonna be CBDC
and and all these different things. And I look at Bitcoin, and
I pray for Bitcoin. I pray just for it to for the network to stay together. I don't pray for the value against the dollar. I pray for what it is, what it represents.
I use it in my own circular economy. Of course, podcasting 2.0
is literally using Bitcoin
for value exchange,
the 100 of thousands of no. Tens of thousands of times a day because I see the transaction numbers.
The
sats that we stack for for for the podcast that I do with certainly the one with my wife, we take that. We buy beef from K&C cattle.
They accept Bitcoin.
You know? So now now you're talking something very, very interesting,
that
goes outside of all of these systems. And, you know, the more I
learn about everything,
Bitcoin and just the world and the lord in general,
the more I see that, yes,
fix the money, fix the world for sure.
For sure.
Totally. And I think too, you know, you just you were saying with K&C buying cattle. I you know, a lot of people who are listening, you may or may not understand what's going on with our food supply,
and how they're gonna start trying to control everything and want us to eat bugs and don't be able to go, you know, purchase this much, you know, food that has x climate,
carbon thing. And so
when we fix the money and when we understand that
the
the the way that we transact value is being censored and it's about to get worse if we don't look at this new beautiful system,
you know, we are slowly allowing ourselves to boil like the frogs and turn into these slaves of these powers that be. I call it the kraken. You know, it's always trying to
get into everything. And so, you know, with debanking, with deplatforming,
with the the the things that these folks wanna do,
it's seriously, it's not time to put your head in the sand. It is time to get educated.
It's time to tune into love and not be afraid, you know, and raise your voice. And so if you're listening to this and you're thinking about starting a show or if you're thinking about making some posts or anything, like,
do it. Like, it's okay. We need all the voices of people who value love, who value truth, who value peace, who value freedom, who value
God, whatever God you choose to believe in,
you
know, rise up. It is time to rise up. It is so, so it's critical, especially what's going on with our democracy here in the United States. It's just been completely
decimated, you know, and it's it's not what we think it is. And so,
so I think when we fix the money, we fix the world. When we fix love, we fix the world, you know, and it's so important that we tune into
what is love, you know, and and and really having that daily love practice. I love the prayer 4 times a day.
It it's magic. So we've got,
we're at the top of the hour, Adam, and Top of the hour, everybody. Valerie D. J, Valerie Beeler. What's going on? What's going
on?
Oh my god.
Do you wanna stay on a little bit? I wanna have you do a closing comment, of course. Do you wanna stay on? Because we've got 4 guys who are gonna teach everybody about all the the protocols and platforms that we're using for, you know, the future of podcasting. So I'd love to stay on just to stay in the background. Listen. I mean, I'll, you know, I'll be watch I'll be watching anyway. So if I need to say something, I'll unmute and say something really appropriate.
But I'd love to, and I just wanna say thank you for doing this. This is this is a a very interesting,
so by the way, I didn't know you were a believer, which just delights me, Mhmm.
Because my wife has said, so tell me about this thing you're doing. And I said, well, it's with the DJ Valerie b Love. She's like,
okay. What's that about?
Oh, she's she's a Bitcoiner, and I'm I I don't know too much about her, but I saw her do a panel at Bitcoin Bitcoin conference about value for value, and she was she knew exactly what she was talking about. When I tell her that you're a believer, she's gonna she's gonna be like, oh, man. Can you it's it's unbelievable.
It is believable, actually. It's believable. It's believable.
Yes. I love it. Well, so okay. So before I bring on the gentlemen who are in the the backstage,
any final words for everybody who's listening? Obviously, this is getting live streamed. We're gonna record it and put it out there, like, you know, one final nugget from the Podfather for the future of podcasting and all the podcasters listening. I will, give you my golden rules of podcasting.
Make sure that whatever frequency you're releasing your podcast,
do it on that same frequency, same day, if possible, the exact same time every single time.
It doesn't have to be down to the hour, but as close as possible is good.
Remember that people have very they they actually
schedule their life around your podcast.
Let me see.
That's that's another boost. Let's say let me see. That was
808 from Eric p p. It triggers different sounds.
See? Interactive. There we go.
They but they schedule their life around your the release of your podcast. And if it doesn't show up,
people will go and look for an alternative, and you can lose them very quickly.
Conversely,
make sure that you remind people that you have another episode coming up. No agenda, and Dvorak does this, sends out a, it's a newsletter, but it's really a reminder that we have another show tomorrow. And it's a reminder that you need to support us with value for value, time, talent, treasure in order for us to continue doing this work. Those are really the main things. Everything else
is,
is really secondary.
I do not believe you need video to be successful.
I I believe you need the RSS protocols
to be completely independent. That's why the index is there.
That's why podcastapps.com
is there for you to find all the hosting companies and apps that you can promote to your audiences.
And, with that, of course, comes the Bitcoin payment rails.
Join us for the revolution
no matter what you're doing, whether you're doing poetry,
whether you're doing news podcasts, whether you're making music, we're here. There's a big, big group of people who are willing to jump in and help you, and, we look forward to seeing more people come into this, to this community.
I love it. Thank you so much. That's such good advice. I know sometimes consistency
is something that,
I'm
It's hard. It is hard, but it's like once you get on it, it's like a rhythm. Right? And so I think that's really, really great advice for all of us out here, especially me. I'm not the most consistent person, so thank you for that. I'm gonna upgrade my consistency, Adam.
And thank you again, seriously, like, for everything you've done out there for this whole community and building the culture
and giving people permission to step forward into their creativity
and to a sense of ownership and a sense of participation.
You know, I think something that's really missing in our souls is, a lot of people don't feel like they belong.
You know? They feel like they're out of place. They're misfits. And so for you to be creating this culture and this community that's fueled from a place of love and from a place of hope and possibility
is it's legendary, and I'm so absolutely honored to get to have had this hour with you. And I can't wait to keep getting more time and celebrating you and what you guys are doing, and I just thank you so so so much. It's it's my pleasure. Also, you can always find me at, IRC.voidzero.net,
hashtag Adam. That's, that's my IRC room.
I'll put all that stuff in the show notes because I I okay. That's okay. I mean, everything will be there. Yeah. You can always jump in there. It's it it's new for me, but I'm so sick and tired of
all the other social experiences.
You know, this is just you can jump in there. I'm always looking at it, and I'm happy to see if I can help you out or, you know, point you in the right direction. And thank you, Valerie, for doing this. I really, really love what that you put this together. This is great. Awesome. Thank you so much so much. And so so, guys, I'm gonna bring on, for the next hour and a half, we're gonna have a panel with,
4 of my buddies who are helping me learn about podcasting, podcasting 2.0, lightning splits.
Ben's not here. I don't know. Ben might have jumped off in this. Oh, there he is. Hi, Ben.
Yay. Alright, guys. This is so great. So
so, again, thank you, Adam, for for being here and,
sharing everything. So, you guys, I wanna welcome to the stage
4 wonderful men who are rocking the next generation of podcasting. They're helping
build protocols. They're building platforms, and they
are always available for us to, you know, reach out to. I've been using all of their stuff, and it's been helping me learn how to, you know, become a better Bitcoiner, become a better podcaster, and to get my messages out. We've got Oscar Mayer of Fountain. We've got Barry Librex of Podhomes,
Ben Arc of Allen Bits, and then Maritz from Get Albi. I'm just gonna let each of you guys do, like, a little quick couple minute intro about who you are and what your, platform service is. And then, and then what I wanna do is get into each of,
I've got, you know, screen shares, and I wanna do some screen shares with
what how it works in the back end. It won't be full tutorials, but what I wanna do is share, like, hey. Cool. How did you know, how do you set up this thing over on Pod Home? And what's an Albie wallet? And how do I listen to this stuff on Fountain? And how can I do splits over here on,
Ellen Bits for my episodes? And not even just episodes, but for the event in general. And so I think that'll be,
that'll be something really cool. So how about let's start with Barry.
And,
I would love to bring you up, mister Barry.
Alright. Thank you so much for, for doing this, Phil.
It's really cool event.
So,
I'm Barry. I'm from a Podthome.defem.
We're a podcast hosting company, like Adam just said, and we are a native podcasting 2.0 hosting company. That means that,
from the beginning, we've been able to build all of these modern features like chapters, transcripts,
clips, people, pod roles, and also v for v,
with the splits and and music as well, all in there, and made it very easy for people to use. And so for instance, right now, we're, broadcasting. There's also live in modern podcast apps. So for instance,
for Fountain,
Oscar Mary's app, you can now listen live to what we're doing here, just the audio, which is very cool. And it's part of modern podcasting,
what we offer at at Bod Home.
I think it's great. Thank you so much. I know I've been using your service, and it has been
amazing. And I feel super grateful that,
you know, you have been so, so helpful, Barry, like, because I always have lots of questions and, of course, 10,000 ideas. Like, can you do this? Can you tweak this? What about that? Can you do this? And you're so responsive
in the way that you guys have been developing Pod Home has been really, really amazing. So I love it, And, I'm super stoked to have you here.
How about Oscar? Let's have you come up next.
Hey, guys. Hey, Val. Thanks so much for doing this. It's been really great so far.
My name's Oscar Merry,
the lead developer of the Fountain app.
Fountain is a podcast app just like any podcast app that you probably use today.
The key
differentiator
for Fountain
is the value for value payments that you've just heard all about from,
from the man himself, Adam Curry. Mhmm. So in Fountain, you can listen to any of your favorite podcasts, but the shows that have chosen
to set up value for value, you can support them directly
from the player.
You can stream sats per minute, and you can send a one off payment, which is called a boost.
And I guess the the key
thing that we're trying to do in the Fountain app is
use the payments as a signal to,
help you discover
what content is worth listening to. So we have a bunch of social features in the app.
If I, for example, follow Adam on Fountain and he sends a boost to an episode, I'll see that in my feed, and maybe I'll check it out or add it to my queue to listen later.
So, yeah, that's brief overview of the Fountain app and happy to talk more about it.
Awesome. Thanks, Oscar. I love this. I know when we met in,
Madeira, we were talking about, you know, the creator summit that we did in May with I think we had, like, 35 speakers. We're like, let's do a summit because not everybody's gonna get to come to a Bitcoin conference. Right? So how can we bring, you know, podcasting
content? How can we bring Bitcoin to the masses? And you were super great with helping to get that going. Same with Barry. You were on the one of the panels there too, so thank you guys so much. Okay. So, Marie, it's from GetAlb. Let's see what what's GetAlb got going on.
Yeah. Hey.
Thanks a lot for the invitation,
Val.
So cool to be here. Mhmm. Yeah. I'm working with a bunch of of great people on Alb. We are building open source
tools for creators,
users,
developers
to send and receive lightning payments,
especially when it comes to,
interacting directly with, applications.
So we give everybody a lightning address. For example, I think that's just, like,
the most important thing someone needs
to to start receiving payments.
And yeah. Like, once you have some stats, you can also then, for example,
connect them to a browser extension
to support other creators.
You can,
use them on the go with with, our new native,
mobile app, Albigo,
for example. And,
one part that we are very much focusing on is, for example, the whole,
value for value specification.
So,
if you have an, IB wallet, for example, you can receive podcasts
payments,
like streaming money,
boost boostergrams,
directly in your app in a self custodial way. But you can also analyze them. For example, we have, we have a tool that's called Saturn.
And by doing this, we
we help and make sure that, like,
podcasters,
but also podcast listeners
have a great time also,
not only like,
just,
saving Bitcoin, but really also making use of their Bitcoin.
It's awesome. I know. I love Albie, and I'm excited. I've got my my Albie hub set up now. And just for anybody who's listening, you know, we're gonna get into a little bit of the nuts and bolts in a second, but, I wanna bring Ben back up or Ben up really quick, and then I wanna talk we'll go back into, like, what is a Lightning Wallet for people to understand, like, what's the basic of what is this Lightning Wallet.
Thank you, Marie. It's hey, Ben. Arc from Ellen Bits. What's up, brother? And Noster, of course.
Hello. How are you doing? Yeah. Thanks for having me. So, I've managed Ben. I got Ellen Bits started, which is a great project. It's probably like Little more voice. It it's hard to hear you.
Is that maybe I've got the wrong
sorry.
It's okay. Let me just quickly switch my audio.
Or maybe maybe circle back around to me.
How about now? It's not louder.
Oh, wait there. I got it. How about
Mm-mm.
No. The other one was better. That sounds better? That's better. Better. Whatever this is sounds better. Yeah. Thumbs up. There we go. So hands up. Brilliant. Thanks, brother.
Yeah. So my name's Ben. I got a little bit started, which is probably most powerful all in one tool set of,
of tools and applications you can just run on your node. We have 45 plus extensions,
which you completely kind of extrapolate out of Ellen Bits, and you can just install them as you need them. And then for things like podcasting,
we have a bunch of useful extensions like payment splitting, which was really nice, kinda came organically out of the community as an idea.
But it means that you can accept payments and then split it across multiple wallets and lightning addresses and things like that.
Other useful extensions, I was just trying to think then. It's like we have a video copilot extension, so you can have, like, a QR code on the screen. And then when people tip you, it, like, triggers gifts and stuff, which is pretty nice.
And then we also have some a bunch of hardware projects, which you kind of came out of the Allen Bits community.
So we have the Bitcoin switch, which means that you can trigger something to happen in real life when a a payment happens to an address.
And you can have a lot of fun with that. So we also so you can, you know, have lights turning on or you can have smoke machines blowing in your face or I don't know. Whatever you can, like I like the idea of, like, an interaction between the audience and the person who's talking to them, and I think it's quite nice where people, like, include the chat or something in a in a a podcast, like a video, feed. But it's also nice when you have, like, stuff happen, like, trigger stuff in it was in the, you know, material world.
Another project which is pretty cool is the zap lamp. So we have that, so you get zapped, and then the lamp goes off, and that that would also be nice in in podcasting.
We also have nostril.com and nostril.org, so we have a very much invested interest in podcasting.
On Nostril, we love the work which is being done on podcasting on Nostril.
We,
now sell nip0 fives on nosta.com, and you they're automatically addresses, and we try and make that kind of, like, onboarding process of of joining Nosta and the Nosta ecosystem easier by offering, like, a professional
Net 5 service.
And, yeah, just loving the the growth of I must admit, I was I was kinda skeptical in Volley for Volley to begin with. So,
because I always kinda thought that people had got drunk on the, you know, the advertising model of, you know, to generate revenue, but it was really seeing zaps in and seeing how willing people are when it's easy
to,
to send some zaps, you know, to some content which they they like and they appreciate. It's just a way of, like,
more than just alike, more than just, you know, retweet, like, just actually send some value to to somebody for their content.
So, yes. So I'm I'm I'm I'm turned. I love it.
Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. I think,
you know, we're not like Adam said earlier, we're not making 1,000,000 of dollars using value for value, but what we are making is hopefully millions of connections with the people who we're delivering our our messages to. And so I think that's really neat, and it's reciprocal.
It's not this one way, you know, megaphone type thing. And so I think, you know, my dad always said, you know, you put your money where your mouth is. Right? And so it's kinda like when you when you're putting your sats up to saying, yeah, I really dig this, that is better than just hitting the like button 10,000 times, which truly doesn't have,
that that type of a value. So,
Adam has a question for you, Ben, and, I'll let Adam go. And then I think what we'll do is we'll just kind of popcorn some talk around here, and then we'll go take a little time later, and I'll show all of the platforms in the background. Does that sound okay?
Hey, Ben. Nice to meet you, man. I have a
question. I've been an LNbits user for a long, long time. I love it. There's a pull request,
that's been sitting around to add KeySend
to the individual wallets. Brother, I would love it so much. If you could take a look at that one, if that can be merged in,
then we can use,
you know, individual LMBits instances kind of as an, an uncle,
uncle what was it, Tom?
Uncle Ben Uncle Dave. Uncle,
you know, as a as a server.
So that's been there for a while. I've commented on it. Dave Jones has commented on if if that can be merged in, man, that would be a game changer.
Yeah. I mean, it's it's I've seen it, and I I I wanted this to get merged in, but if we just have this list we're actually coming out of, in getting version 1 next month, so we're actually coming out of beta. And that's when the fun begins, and we can actually start, like, working through those PRs, which are like those added extras.
But, yeah, totally. I'll I'll I'll bump it. I'll bump it with the with the crew and, but thank you very much. Adam, I'm I'm a massive fan. And and that quote, there was a podcast you did early on, and it's where I learned bits. I was very young, and I was so impressed that you spun up when you were you were playing around with it.
And you had this amazing quote where you're like, holy shit. Look at the things you could do with this other bits. And I I pulled it out, and I was like, it's my favorite quote, one of my favorite quotes. So thank you thank you for that. I'm a big fan of the world, man. So I'd I'd I'd love if we can bring that even closer because it's as I said, it's it's something that is needed, and it'd be great if, if we can get that going.
It's a big bump key, Senpi. I'm on it. Bump it. Bump it.
Okay. So, hey, why don't we do a live demonstration of how Ellen Bits works? I wanna show you guys kind of, like, this is something that's super interesting to me because, again, I'm still learning. I'm new. I'm not the super tech goddess, and, you know, Ben was super generous and took, you know, a long time helping me set up
a a cloud node and then getting Ellenbit set up so that we could, you know, do donations for the the episode. Is that can we do a little I'll show you guys something in real time, and then you guys are all gonna get I'm gonna stream y'all or send y'all some sats. Are you gonna do the demo? I'll do I'll I'll I'll just do a quickie, and then if you wanna do something more detailed I mean, I could have it up, but you know? I did it. I'll I'll do quickie because that's me. I'm I mean, I'm not I don't like quickies, but
okay. So so what's cool about, you know, why why I wanted to use Ellen Bits in this type of splits was because when we were doing the registration for the event,
I was like, how can we you know, because we can have people go donate, you know, and do value for value, you know, donate value for how That's another thing I wanna talk about is the word donate versus value for value. We'll get to that in a sec. But, but rather than just using, you know, obviously,
fiat, it's like, how can I do this with,
with Bitcoin? And so right now,
we've got this QR code. Let's make sure that it works. I did it earlier.
It's gonna send. I'm gonna send. No. I gotta go less than a1000. Sorry, guys.
123
100.
Okay. There we go. I'm sending
right now. So I created a specific wallet just for this particular event. And so this this IP, you know, we'll call it that event. And then so we go over to
share this tab instead. So a few seconds ago, I just sent a 1,000 sats to that first address. Right? And so we're now in the Ellen Bits background at djval.biz.
We set it up under my,
a name. And so right now,
a 1,000 stats is coming into that address, and it should be going into these splits. And so what's cool is I can make up, you know, Bitcoin for podcaster summit. I'm gonna have a Bitcoin for domestic violence summit, on November 2nd.
We're gonna be doing Bitcoin for families in December, and so each event I received my split right there. Yeah. You got it? Alright. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. So check it out. So so it's so cool. So just like what you can do in Pod Home,
you know, you can do here. And so I can create, you know, the split payments,
and I'll say, cool. Check it out. I sent this. You know, I split it up between all of us and our addresses.
Equally, I'm sending a few sats to OpenSats who are obviously rocking and rolling with,
you know, funding open source development.
And so you can change it. It's just like Adam was saying. You wanna send 40% to your producer, etcetera.
So that's like rinse and repeat. It's so
easy to do. I was just like, wow. I can't wait to learn about this and teach other people how that can, you know, you know, help. And so,
what do you guys think? Like I mean Yeah. Go ahead. What what what what honest to what what I was saying before by being very organic with the payments thing. So, originally, it was during COVID.
Crypto graffiti did a DJ set, that it was like it's some old bank thing. It was a Bitcoin.
And on the screen, he had a QR, and he we made an extension for it. Fair Jeff made an extension with CryptoKathy, and he had a QR code on the screen. And if you tipped him,
enough money, you would get the download for the song. But then every time you tipped him, it would split the payment. So 10% went to the DJ and then 90% went to the producer,
which was so cool. And then it was like within our little community,
it's funny because I was I was talking to someone about this the other day. When you get this new powerful tool of of micro payments like this, you know, an omnismicro payments through the computer, like, you it takes you like, these ideas seem so, like, obvious later on, but it took us a couple of years to get there. Just the idea that, oh, yeah. We can, like it doesn't cost us anything to split these payments across all these different wallets, all these different lightning addresses, or whatever else.
And,
and and then from so from the community then, we were like, okay. We needed to have a a separate extension which would be split payments where you could you could just have that functionality pulled out of, DJ livestream. But it was just an example to me how it takes a while to kind of, like, think of all the incredible use cases you can have for just micropayments
on the Internet.
And makes me very hopeful because, obviously, there's a whole bunch of stuff. It's, you know, it's a blank canvas of fertile ground. We can just throw ideas around, and they'll grow into these beautiful plants.
Yeah. It is a blank canvas, and I think it's, like, super important for us to be in the mindset of experimentation.
And,
you know, really thinking in terms of, like, how are we cross pollinating each other's projects and how are we cross pollinating, you know, the way that we're doing things? Because a lot of people, again, in, like, regular, you know, normie world are like, okay. Don't come over here. You can't see what I'm doing. You know? And I think in this community, I've found so like, I've had so many conversations with so many developers and, you know, founders and, you know, artists and people, and it's all just like, hey. How can we do this? How can we make this better? You know? And it feels like, yeah, it's like we wanna compete with ourselves and with the technology to keep improving it, but it's not at the it's not a zero sum game. Like, I win, you lose. It's like we win. When we win, we win. And I think just to me, that's been such a cool feeling to be in
a part of. You know? And so,
let's
go ahead. Yeah. Ben. Quickly. One one more powerful example of the just the split payments thing, which is to me just still blows my mind, was, there's an El Salvador coffee producer.
Yeah.
Espresso pen. Coffee. They they sell coffee in Europe bags of coffee in Europe. And,
the at point of sale, the payment split across the, distribution line. But the most important point is that because it's Bitcoin, because they accept Bitcoin in El Salvador,
the unbanked coffee grower gets the Bitcoin at point of sale. So when every time a buyer coffee sold in Europe, boom, they get the stats in their wallet.
And they were explaining to me the the transition. When you have a distribution line, when you have someone who's an unbanked producer
and then banked, you know,
distribution,
like, there's a there's a a a huge,
they they they they lose a lot of money. So you're saying that with the by using Bitcoin and by them being able to then spend that Bitcoin in in El Salvador,
They were getting, like, 5 times more than they usually would at the the the sale of coffee. I thought it's like, it's amazing. You know? Like, when you build the tools and then and then someone uses it for such a a great use case. So, anyway, that's not super podcasting. Just really liked it anecdotally.
No. And that's what's so cool because it's like you think you you build a technology that is, you know, starting over here in this zone, but then it can be, you know, spread out into all these other areas because it's simply value. Right? And so
I I love thinking about, you know, what are the other use cases that we don't understand that are gonna start popping up that maybe we haven't thought about, you know?
So that's super important. What I wanna talk about too just, you know, with
what is the difference, you know, and I'll bring Barry up here,
with, you know, between using Ellen Bits versus a Pod Home to do splits because we've got RSS, obviously,
and, you know, and then we've got this Ellen Bits thing. So can you help the listeners
understand, like, do you need to set it up 2 different ways? Or what would be you know, do you have, you know, one for one thing and one for another? Can you help people understand, Barry?
Yeah. I let me try. So
Pod Home is specifically for podcasters. Right? So if you're if you have a or multiple podcasts, you go to Pod Home, you upload your stuff there, and then we distribute that to the podcast apps so that people can listen to it. And so within Pod Home, you can set your splits, you can set your lightning addresses.
Like, there's your show,
for people that are listening. Valerie is showing Pod Home and her show here in the background.
And therefore, this whole show, you can set up your,
v for v information.
So the recipients
that will receive the value in the lightning dresses, and you can also set that per episode. You can override that for a particular episode,
and then you can, for instance, split that with your guest,
or you can set,
a value time split for when you, for instance, play a value for value song. And then whenever somebody boosts during that episode,
automatically the apps and Oscar can tell more about how that would work.
Specifically,
the app will then send the value that you boost
to, the people in the splits or to, for instance, the artist when the song is played in that particular
time stamp of the episode.
So I guess the difference is
for podcasters, this is all baked in for you here,
easy to set up within Pod home. And for other use cases, lmbits
is a much broader thing, of course. Right? So it's, for instance, for coffee people there or
for lots of other stuff. But this is just baked in for the use case itself, so for podcasters.
And for fountain, for instance, it's different. That's for podcast listeners.
So there's these several use cases, and the products just make it very easy because all this functionality is just baked in so that you can easily set up,
yeah, the the the lightning addresses that will receive
the value.
And it for for Ben and for you,
Barry,
if somebody let's say, you know, you set up,
you know, the episode has whatever, a couple splits and, you know, Bob at get albie, whatever, and then let's say that wallet goes away.
Right? Let's say somebody, you know, doesn't have that wallet anymore. It's not is it gonna mess up any of the splits, whether it's through the, you know, the RSS feed or through Ellen Bits? Or will it just it'll split to everybody in that little those sats will just get hung in the the world?
That's a great question. I I actually don't know the, the answer. So,
what will happen in, in the RSS feed itself,
the address will stay in the RSS feed even if the Lightning address doesn't exist anymore. That's just the text in the RSS feed. Right? And then it depends on how,
in this case, and the podcast app,
deals with sending that or not sending that.
But it won't. But it like, you're saying it's like, everybody else who's in that split will get what they have. You know? So it's not gonna, like, screw something up for, have a, redundancy.
Something. Oh, I hear some background somewhere, guys. I'm not sure what that is.
But,
and then, Ben, what about you? Is there any issue, like, if people are using Allen Bits and there's a dead wallet or incorrect
if somebody enters something incorrectly with the splits, is it gonna mess up the whole thing?
I think Ben might be frozen.
Mhmm. I can answer that. If that payment will just fail. All the other ones will will continue, that payment will fail. Okay. And in all,
for all intents and purposes, that money should not leave your wallet,
that particular payment. But the rest and most of the the podcast apps all report that. If there's a failed payment, you can see it. It's usually highlighted so you can,
we have a very active community reaching out to each other like, bro,
bro, your liquidity is gone.
Okay. Got it. So then basically, if if
so let's say I'm sending whatever, a 1,000 sats and there's a split that's supposed to go, you know, 5050.
If one of the wallets is dead, only 50% of my
send will actually go, and then the other 50% will still stay in my wallet as a sender. That's the that's the Yeah. It's just a failed payment. That's the desired behavior. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. So
the way this works in Fountain, just to give an example, so we have a built in wallet in the Fountain app directly in the podcast app.
This makes it really easy for your audience and any listener to get started. You can create a wallet just with an email address.
And when you send a boost or when you start streaming money every minute, you'll see all of your transaction history on the wallet tab.
So let's say you have an episode with 4 splits,
and one of those splits fails.
The other 3 will still go through, and you'll see in the Fountain app wallet,
which split failed.
And we also have the ability to retry a failed split as well because very occasionally, we do have these
individual
split failures.
So you can just retry that failed split at a later date. Like Adam said, there's a great community of people, you know, pointing this out, and your audience will tend to point out if one of your splits failed, and you need to go back and update that in the feed.
Awesome.
And so,
Oscar, while I've got you on here, why don't you help everybody understand again, like, how does Fountain work? And, obviously, we've got these other, you know,
listening platforms, like, you know, what like Fountain, like, for people who are
boost me and I blow a cloud. Oh,
oh,
let everybody know how, you know, how does this work? And I know that there was something recently you guys did with integrating with Nostr.
Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
Yeah. Sure. I think for anyone that's
watching or listening,
that either has a podcast or maybe is thinking about starting a podcast,
the the main thing I wanna get across about Fountain is that it's a podcast app, and it does exactly what any of the other podcast apps out there do. So for your audience,
coming from a podcast app like Apple Podcasts
or Spotify,
or any of these other, you know, more mainstream apps, your audience are gonna feel really comfortable,
you know, switching to Fountain. It's really easy for them to do that. We have import from Spotify,
import from Apple,
import from OPML,
and our goal is to build,
you know, a listener experience that is first class and it matches
what you'd find on something like,
Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
So that's the first thing to say. It's really easy to get started. And then what we have is the built in
wallet that allows you
to get started with the Bitcoin Lightning Network in in an easy way because that can be intimidating,
especially
if your audience,
doesn't necessarily,
you know, have,
a close alignment with Bitcoin and Lightning. And so
as a listener, when you first download the app, you know, the wallet is very simple. It's easy to get started. You can top up with a bank card, so you don't really have to have,
a prior experience with Bitcoin, and I think that's really important.
A lot of,
the feedback
we've received is,
many people that use Fountain and also the other podcasting 2.0 apps don't even think of the Satoshis that they're sending around as Bitcoin. They just think of it as this kind of like podcasting money that's fun,
that can be sent at different amounts,
customizable,
split between,
different people, and also works,
between the different apps.
So, yeah, that's another high level overview of Fountain. And then I guess the other thing we're trying to do is make these payments,
more social. So we've always had a big focus on, social activity,
in Fountain. You know, for me, I love seeing,
the boost that people are sending to different shows.
You know, countless times I've discovered,
new episodes by seeing people's boost in the feed, And that's something that podcasters have also told us again and again that they really
value about Fountain is that it's not just
that this system makes it easy for you as a podcaster to receive
money, but it also helps
grow your show because,
other people will see those boosts and think, wow, okay, Valerie sent 50,000 sats to that episode.
What is that episode about? You know, let me at least go and click on the content card and, you know, at least take a look at it. So,
we're trying to make the payments social, and, yeah, in one of the most recent releases, we've integrated
with Nosto, which just solved some of the onboarding
issues for us. You know, before
when you first downloaded Fountain, you wouldn't have a profile, you wouldn't have any followers. You know, the app would feel a little bit empty and,
and maybe even a bit lonely.
Whereas now you can bring your Nosta profile and also the boost payments and the regular comments,
for episodes that don't have value for value set up,
can
kind of be shared anywhere,
to other podcasting apps, onto
other Nosta clients as well. It's it's still quite early with,
podcasting and Nosta, but, yeah, that was, you know, what we're trying to do there is
the ultimate goal, which, you know,
Adam's talked a lot about. The ultimate goal
is to have
any listener
send a boost on any podcast app, and that boost appears in all the other podcasting 2.0 apps,
and anyone can reply to it and, know, start a conversation. The cross app podcast comments is something that,
we're really trying to make work, and we think Nostra's a great way to do that. So, yeah,
a lot of details there.
I just encourage everyone listening to to get started. Download the app,
you know,
set up a podcast on Pod Home and just, you know, experiment with sending a boost.
I love it. I think,
also, Oscar, so, like, let's say, for example, right now so because I'm set up to Noster. I I believe I set this up and connected fountain to Noster. So these comments that I was making for,
for Heather and the ones she made, like, that's gonna appear in any of my nostril feeds somewhere. Is that correct?
Yeah. Exactly. So the way this works is
if you're listening to a podcast in the Fountain app and you choose to send a boost, which is a comment with a payment, or just leave a regular comment on the episode that you're listening to,
that will be brought optionally broadcast to the rest of the Nosta network,
meaning
that someone somebody just browsing their Nosta feed on
a client like Primal or Damas or Amethyst,
will see your
episode comment in the feed and will be able to reply to it, repost it, zap you to send you a few sats back.
So it's optional, but you have the option to,
you know, send that message
more broadly than just the podcast
app. The the real intention behind this is
it stops
you having to choose as a listener which action to take.
So you might finish an episode and think, wow, that was so
amazing. That was so interesting.
I can't wait to share this with people.
And also I'd love to support the podcaster because, you know, that was valuable to me,
and
the last hour I spent was was valuable. I wanna send some value back.
Right now,
you have a choice between
doing one of each of those things,
or all three. So you could
leave a comment,
you could send a payment,
you could share the episode link on an external
social media platform like X
or, you know,
Facebook or Instagram.
What's cool about
the Nosta integration in Fountain is we've kind of combined all of those things
whereby
you can send a payment to the podcaster and any of the downstream splits that we've talked about.
You can,
leave a comment on the episode.
People going to the episode page in the app see that, and maybe your comment provides additional context to the episode that's helpful for people when they see it. And, also, you can share the episode link and your message
out into
your main,
social feed. So
that's the goal, and we think,
it it's got a lot of opportunity for just kind of spreading
the word about these episodes,
and also the payment because the payment data is all in there as well. So, you know, if other Podcasting 2.0 apps want to query the data, which is all public, then they can query that data. It's really easy. It uses the podcast GUID tag that,
Adam and Dave,
kind of
came up with as part of Podcasting 2.0.
So, yeah, there's a lot there, but I think what we're trying to do here is
we have open content distribution
with RSS
and, you know, it's working amazing, amazingly.
We're pushing it forward within Podcasting 2.0,
adding new mediums like music,
adding new features,
all of the time. We have open payments with the Lightning Network.
You know, you can sign up to any number of Lightning wallets. There's loads of different services. You can pick the one that that works best for you,
and those payments work between every single app. And with Nosta, what we have is,
an open kind of social graph. And I think for me, that's the missing piece just to tie everything back together to to have that goal of everything working on any app. So as a listener or as a content creator, you can choose as as Adam said earlier, there's a 1,000 hosting companies.
There's probably a 1,000 podcasting apps.
You know, maybe we're pushing on to a 1,000 lightning wallets. I don't know. But that gives,
people choice, both on the content creation side and the listening side. They can just pick and choose between all of those different things.
Love it. Thanks, Oscar. And so let's talk about oh, sorry. Go ahead. I'm a I just wanna say I'm a I'm a massive fan of Oscar's done with fountain. I think it's really interesting to take the social graph
and then apply it to podcasting 2.0 and the the value for value thing because,
and I was talking to Oscar about this in Prague.
If you just create those integration tools, which people can use in podcasting, but then across other platforms, games, whatever else. Like, it it brings so many people into the Nosto
ecosystem,
and, like, that's clearly, you know, a very
valuable proposition when it comes to social networking,
with all the stuff which is happening with Twitter at the moment. So So it it's just like marrying it's just, you know, you want audience, don't you? That's what you want. And if there's people actively,
giving you zaps and talking about the podcast you're doing on the, you know, 500,000
active
Noster users, and that that number's going up, then that's only only can be good for the for the content creator. So it's it's it's a huge achievement, Oscar did, and it's very brave as well because it must have it was a I mean, it must have been such an overhaul for the for the for the software to to get it to this point, but it's it's very interesting.
Yay. I love this. I I love the celebration with everybody. Let's talk about, like, how the payments can work and what Get Albi is. And so I wanna go back to that that screen of
fountain. And so right here, I was just zapping Heather because she left me a nice comment. Thanks, Heather.
And so I zapped her.
You guys I don't know if you can see. Does it does it show up that it says zapping?
Yeah. It shows up zap. Okay. And so just straight from that
that interface, I can go send I can say, yo. Love you.
Love you. And send her send my fan back some sats because she was sending me stuff. Okay. And so then now what happens here can you guys see the pop up of the Albie? Yeah. And so,
Moritz, can you talk about this and how Albie is integrated into the the extensions and how we can pay from our browsers? Obviously, you can pay from within the apps, but also paying from within browsers, I think, is also kind of a cool thing.
Yeah. That's actually really the idea of Albie.
We do not want to build another, like, disconnected,
wallet for Bitcoin payments.
But something that you can bring wherever you go,
and whatever use case you have. So for example, here right now, what you see is
you want,
you're using, I guess, a web app, for example, and you want to interact with this web application.
And you can do that very nicely and smoothly with the with the Albie extensions.
Right? So that's that's one way,
you can do that, for example. And this is, really,
the idea of of bringing
payment
to professional applications.
And we have a bunch of them. So you see them, for example, on getalvi.com/discover.
That's that's a list of applications and you will also find there,
quite a lot of
podcasting
apps. Either podcast hosting
services or podcast listener apps.
Because we think that like these
are, yeah,
apps that doing that they are great in providing their service. Right? So,
and,
I think we can just improve them a little bit by, adding,
adding a payment,
wallet.
So the user has the feeling
that,
they don't they do not actually use a separate
wallet, but they can use rss.com,
for example.
It's on the list is on get alb.com/
discover.
Slash discover. So they use,
blueberry, for example, if, as a podcast hosting service, rss.com
or berriespothome,
directly directly within the application.
Right.
If you scroll a little bit down, you see,
that there are quite a bunch of of podcasting
apps,
where you can use or connect your your Albi Wallet,
for example. So,
I think this,
yeah, exactly here. So this,
but this list in general also shows how big the ecosystem
of, of Bitcoin apps
has already grown over the last, over the last years. So you can actually do quite a lot,
when it comes to,
yeah.
Distributing your content,
adding
a your Albi wallet
to that to that, special application,
for example.
And
often
core is a lightning address that you that you that you get from from from Albi. It looks like your email address. You can plug it into to,
for example,
and and connect your wallet in that way. And I also hope, for example, that that,
you can also
connect your Albie account or Albie wallet soon to to fountain.
If if if Oscar is interested,
that that would be awesome as well.
Yeah. Definitely hope to add that support soon.
For it. Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
yeah.
Yeah. No. This is incredible. Like, it's just it's overwhelming too because it's like, oh my gosh. What else what am I missing out here? What am I forgetting? Am I not? You know?
Like, for for people who are listening right now who are might be just brand new to Bitcoin, brand new to Lightning, brand new to Nostril, brand new to
to all of this, like, where would you guys, you know, suggest that, you know, we have a step 1, step 2, step 3,
you know, intake for folks. Like, what would be a proper, you know, easy onboarding for for new people who might be listening?
Who wants to tackle that?
I guess,
if you're a podcaster,
obviously,
go to, Podhome and, just start an account there. But also just go to the podcast index.org,
and they have a list of apps
that are hosts and also podcast apps that are all modern apps that have all these modern features, including v for v and lovely things like live, for instance, chapters, transcripts, all that type of stuff. You can pick and choose and go play with the things that you like. And from there, you get
sucked into the ecosystem
of also, for instance, LB accounts,
and from there, fee for fee and Bitcoin. So I think that might be a good, on ramp.
Awesome. Any other suggestions? What's step 2? There's, you know, after we do all that. Go get an Albie wallet?
Of course. You can do that.
So, yeah, sign up.
You get a you will get a self custodial,
which is called.
Mhmm.
And,
it is, like,
the the easiest to use actually. One of the easiest to use self custodial lightning wallets out there. And
the cool thing is that,
yeah, it's extremely flexible.
Yeah. Exactly. That's, you can connect it to your to an Albie extension. You can connect it to AlbieGo,
bring it in your pocket everywhere
where you where you are. So the the ideas don't like just let your stats stay in one place and you cannot use it when you move around, but now you can bring your stats everywhere where you go.
And there are actually,
if we could, if you could click on the app store, like 2 apps, I would like to
highlight there.
If you want to, if you are like your I'll be hop,
runner, then you can really make it extremely easy
for,
your family and friends, because we have a dedicated
application, which is called
like exactly the same.
You will find that in the second row in the middle.
Yep. And, and here you basically can now create sub accounts,
of your, I'll be hub
for,
for, for family, for friends, for other podcasters,
for podcast listeners, for example.
And, just follow the instructions.
They can add that to an Avi account, for example, to an extension.
And the cool thing is in the last line, you will also see that, these sub accounts are fully podcasting 2.0,
like, compliant. So every one of them,
every subaccount also has,
the the note key, the the the custom value, custom key, basically all they need to receive value for value payments. And,
we did that also because we think that that these podcast payments are extremely good use case and then very, very important ecosystem now,
that we see there.
So
that's one way,
also to onboard more users, to give them a lightning wallet.
So because, you know, there's always a little bit of
like less knowledge, but you will have,
just the tools there to to to help others
getting started.
And and, Moritz, I know you guys at Albie, you guys do is it every week or every month you do, like,
calls with all the people and that kind of helping people understand how to use Albie and what the new stuff is? Like, can you help people understand,
you know, how
to get on board and just make sure that they're not accidentally losing their keys or putting stuff on a piece of, you know, the back of a sticky note?
You want to help people understand. Obviously, we need people
step 1 is making sure you understand how to protect your keys, and I think that's very important. A lot of people,
are used to passwords and centralized
authorities holding on to our our value and our wealth.
Yep. So no. I think it's it's up to to everyone,
to say, okay.
Do I
trust the custodian,
or or do I want to manage it myself?
We just want to make it extremely easy for people to manage it themselves. Right? And,
but we also know that we need to invest a lot of education,
and we do that.
We have,
2 calls per week
on, on, on Tuesday evening.
Like Europe,
no, Tuesday Europe time in the evenings and lunchtime
on Thursday.
And you can sign up for these calls on kyle.com/getalbi.
And, these are usually very, very fun sessions where we come together.
It's around 5 to 5 to 6 people every time. And and then we talk about all things. I'll be I'll be hub key management, channel management,
everything that they need to know.
Basically.
That's amazing. I love it. I know. I think education, a lot of,
you know, people,
we think like, oh, I watched a Bitcoin podcast or I did a thing. It's like it's a lifelong journey so far for me. I still feel like every day I'm learning something brand new about, you know, the philosophy or the technology. Certainly,
I'm not a cryptographer or developer, so it's like there's always something that I think we're
learning. And I think sometimes, I don't know, I'd love to hear from any of you guys about this in your experience, but
it's like kinda like a stairway, right, a stairway to Satoshi.
But it's like you don't have to go on all the steps. Like, you don't have to run a node. You don't have to be a developer. You don't you know, you can just be on the 1st rung and you'd be totally fine. You know, but getting off 0 to me is the most important thing that we can help new people understand
about Bitcoin,
and certainly creatives. So what do you guys think about,
you know, what's been your journey with trying to help, you know, with your community and educating them about Bitcoin?
Whoever wants to do that.
Critical math stuff, isn't it? It's like you start educating some people, and then
some people learn how to spin up a node or whatever and and spin up whatever. And then,
and then it's just
more people learn these new tools. It takes a little while, but they get used to you using these tools. But it's it's getting easier. Like, we did,
more recently, we did a I did a YouTube video for Alan Bitts, and he's running on Phoenix d. And Phoenix d is like a self custodial,
but managed note by async. That's what that's what you ran me through? Yeah. That's what I ran you through. It's just a it's it's a really nice solution because you get a self custodial node. You know, faff around with channels.
And for a lot of people, that that's great. That's that's what they want. And then for others, you know, or maybe in time, they'll they'll wanna shift that across
to running their own node, and like with some of the elements you made at ease, you can just, like, swap out. It's fine.
But it's just,
yeah, it's just coming up with there's just all these new solutions which are are coming out for for running your own, you know, lightning
stuff.
And we have before, we had, like, custodial and we had noncustodial,
and noncustodial was a pain in the ass. But now we have, like, these, like, noncustodial,
but they kinda manage solutions, which make life a little bit easier.
And,
but I would say when it comes to
pod play podcast, I would I mean, I I use Fountain, and it's it's it's really spectacular. Like, it's it was a great experience.
And, I mean, you know, I like Nostra on Nostra a lot. So,
my my my go to Nostra client is Amethyst. So I think if you got Amethyst, you got Fountain, you're engaging with podcasters, you're sending some value, value for value.
And then if you wanna do podcasting, there's a bunch of solutions, but you can, you know, with Ellen Bits, you can spin that up, play around with it, spin up yourself. You can use it. We have a SaaS solution, my.lmbits.com
you could play around with. If you want to, 21 sets an hour to run an Ellen Bits, just run on Ellen Bits for a few hours and then drop it.
Or for show my own my own stuff here, but I put for Fairland Bits. If you go to the Alan Bits YouTube, we have a bunch of tutorials for, like, spinning up on something like Phoenix d, which makes,
running your own self custodial lightning note a gazillion times easier.
But, no, it's great. I mean, it's,
you know, there was a period,
earlier on in the year where people kind of flooding on Lightning,
but I think it was it was it was more the we had, like, fees go up because of ordinal stuff, and then people's channels got bought, and everyone's freaking out.
But from that, you know, from that demand, now we have all these great solutions for
sort of self custodial
being able to inter in in being able to use the Lightning Network in a kind of self custodial way. And there's a bunch of really interesting solutions coming out.
What do you guys see as the next
wave
of innovation
with lightning, with Bitcoin, with podcasting 2.0? Is there something that is, like, cooking that we're not aware of, or are we, like, kind of all in the crock pot right now? Like, what what do you guys see in the future? I I I really love,
the so this is the service called BOLTs, which is trustless atomic swaps in and out of lightning liquid in the on chain on chain. We have a bulk extension in that, but it's very useful. So you can, like, you know, have say if you have if you're using somebody else's elements, if you're using the uncle Jim model, then you could just set this extension up and say every £200,
which goes since this wallet, $200 for Christmas. It's wallet. Just loop out to on chain. And then so what we've done is we've also used that as a funding source. So you can actually have a liquid wallet
and then fund your Ellen Bits using a liquid wallet. And when you create a transaction, it does this trustless atomic swap to liquid. It's how the lightning wallet, aqua works, the liquid wallet aqua, so you can send and receive, like, lightning payments. And it's so fast.
But I love the idea of having
much more interoperability
between on train lightning and liquid.
And although, you know, it sounds a bit technical for now, and it's not clearly ready for not ready for mass,
use,
I think it's, I think there's a lot of likes in it. And I'm I'm looking forward to to more people innovating and playing around with that.
And then it's and I I haven't even touched liquid. I don't know what like, is there something you wanna share with like, that would be relevant to podcasters with what is liquid?
It's just another solution for, like, if you want,
you know, something self custodial but not wanna you don't wanna run a node, you could have these trusted atomic swaps going into the and have a liquid, wallet.
And liquid is a has
proved itself over the years that it's it's a pretty decentralized
federation of,
so it's a federated blockchain side chain from from Bitcoin.
But it they they part Blockstream. The people who manage the the federation, they put a lot of leg work and and funds into
keeping it decentralized, and it's it's it's a good solution for people who who don't want something custodial,
and, again, they don't wanna run their own node.
Or perhaps maybe they just use something like Phoenix Deep, but, you know, it's it's it's yet another
I think it's just like getting as as as as many weapons in our toolset, isn't it, for,
for for building on and then and just seeing what people can build. But I I really love the interoperability between different layers. I think it's cool. Yeah. That seems super functional. Like, Lego blocks is building. I and I think that's, you know, what, Adam, you were talking about earlier is just that,
obviously, these protocols. Right? We don't wanna be stuck on one platform. We don't wanna be limited on anything. You know? We wanna be able, as,
humans and creators, to not be stuck and trapped in something so that interoperability is important.
Like, for people who are listening who might not understand the difference between protocols versus platforms, does somebody wanna tackle that?
Adam. Yeah. Sure.
The
I'm trying to think of an analogy here,
which may not be a very good one, but
with the protocol
or
RSS is actually not even a protocol. It's a format.
What's the difference between a format and a protocol?
Holy crap. So many other guys are gonna have to grab that one for me. I mean, RSS is it's so simple, and it originally stood for really simple syndication. I like saying rock solid syndication.
The whole concept behind it is you don't need to be
technical. You just need to be able to write this
this,
this text file,
and you can drop it anywhere, and it can be ingested. It's just it's just a document that tells a podcast app, here's here's where all the information is. Here's where my m p three files are. Here's the description of each individual episode, etcetera.
So it it's so
simple.
The the difference really with the platform is that you own that. So you can put that wherever you want. You can change host. You can put it on a different server. You can drop it into an Amazon s 3 bucket. You know, you can there's all kinds of places you can put it.
With the platform,
once you sign up to the platform, they control it. This is what deplatforming
is all about. So,
you know, no one can I mean, if if
x goes away tomorrow, everybody's social media goes away? If 1 podcast host goes out of business,
you know, assuming you you registered your own domain name, and attach that to your, to your RSS feed where it's sourced from, you can change overnight.
In fact, the podcast hosting industry is set up so nicely that redirects are put in place as a courtesy. So if you move,
that host will actually tell all the podcast apps, oh, this feed has moved over here, and from now on, get it over here.
So it's a much more open way of
syndicating or distributing the information
that is,
that pertains to your content and where it comes from.
What it doesn't have and this this is kind of what's interesting with Noster.
So Noster,
very similar, although there is a protocol, but it's still
basically, you're sending notes over relay. So you're sending text files
through relay so that everybody can pick them up.
What is
missing from Noster and what people initially don't understand and they they are confused
is there's no algorithm.
And so it's good and bad. On one hand, when you first jump onto Noster, you're like,
where's the stuff? You know, where where's all the good how do I get stuff? So you have to start building up your your your your follows and, you know, what you want to aggregate within within your Noster app. Whereas you get on to x or Facebook or Instagram or threads or whatever, and they will determine for you what you want to see. And based upon what you look at, they're gonna give you more of that,
which, of course, gives you the,
the illusion that this is a great place to hang out, but it also puts you in great peril because they can basically mess with your mind at any moment by giving you whatever
whatever they want to for whatever reason. Now in some cases,
Tina, my wife, loves Instagram because if she's looking for shoes,
the Algo immediately strikes and gives her shoes, shoes, shoes, and then she can switch the dogs.
And she can you know, and the Algo picks that up pretty quickly.
But,
and I have to remind her all the time. Did you see what just slipped in there? Okay. You know, that's that's what they're doing. And, ultimately,
their plan is to keep you on their platform for as long as possible.
So they'll do whatever it takes to keep you on there as long as possible.
Yeah. And it's it's
hold on one second, Ben, and I'll let you come back. I'm gonna talk about Tina and her her dogs and shoes. Like, I I just went through a breakup, you know, over the summer. It was pretty gnarly Bob Marley. And, you know, I like, oh, I'm gonna scroll and, oh, look at this nice quote. And I mean, literally,
everything was filled with, you know,
believe in yourself and you're worthy and everything. And I was like, oh, Instagram is trying to help heal my heart because I'm I'm suffering right now, and I just got dumped.
You got dumped. But,
but it's it's so so from that lens, it was like the shoes or the, oh, I got affirmations, but it did keep me there longer, and then I'm getting exposed to all the advertising bullshit. Right? And so so, Ben, sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to, you know, tail on Adam's thing there. I I wanna I wanna give Adam some hope. So there's a lot of work being done actually on on the algorithms
for for for Nosta. So but then also for you to have a level of control as a user of your of your algorithm. So,
clients clients and relays, like, let me because, like, your client can have, an algorithm for finding content and content discovery.
But Primal, they they're adding little toggle switches. So perhaps, you know, you have, like, 2 degrees of separation, so your friends' friends, you see that content. And then maybe you find your your own little echo chamber, and you just move this little toggle and then have 3, 4 degrees of separation.
I know Rabble, who, was the the person who actually employed Jack Dorsey, he's doing a lot of work with, NorthStar Social on user control of algorithms. Obviously, you don't wanna be, like, have decision fatigue. Like, a lot of this stuff can be baked into the client. Mhmm. But there is just just to put your mind at rest, Adam, there is some really interesting and it's quite fascinating. So it's like, you know, money was a dirty word until we had Bitcoin.
Algorithm's a dirty word until we have, you know, user control.
But, actually, like, when you have user control of algorithms,
I I I think what primal are planning to do is have kind of an algorithm market or a feed market where people can share their their algorithms. So if you create a great algorithm, you could share it with with people.
And and I I can't imagine that kind of computer science being done, you know, like, the algorithms in Twitter or Instagram or wherever else. It's it's a closed closed source thing, which they don't allow you to have access to. So you don't know what how you're being pushed in either direction.
Whereas, like,
I think it's one of the coolest things in us is you just you just we're gonna have this kind of open environment where these algorithms are developed,
and we'll get this incredible, like, permissionless development,
which we see across across the nester noster ecosystem. So although it's not quite there yet, like, 2 weeks, you know, like, it's it's it's a coming. It's a coming. It'll be great.
Amen to that, brother. That's exactly the way to go. I look forward to it.
Hi, DTO. I think that's super interesting. I have a question for you guys, and, you know, this is a little side thing, but it has to do with, obviously,
you know, content 2.0 for the future for all of content in general. And, you know, Adam, you touched on this earlier about, you know, bring down Spotify, screw those guys, let's build the new the new world here.
And we think about micropayments and the friction of micropayments.
Right? And so for me, mentally, sometimes, I wanna send a boost because I just listen to something, but I forget to do the boost, but I know I've got something in the background that, you know, automatically,
you know, because I have stuff set to streaming.
What do you guys think? Like, I've
been talking to Abubakar with B Trust, and I came up with this little concept. And I've been talking with Mike,
also, and so just a couple different people about kind of the super fan wallet idea. So imagine you have one wallet
that, let's say, each month you fund it with, you know, $10, $20, whatever. I'm a patron, and so instead of having a whole bunch of subscriptions over here with my patron, then I support this, and I support that show, and then I've gotta go remember to go zap everybody and la la la.
So mentally to me, as somebody who really does wanna support my creators and the consumption that I'm I'm,
partaking in, I don't wanna think about that. I just wanna go consume, consume, consume. And then perhaps at the end of the month, that $10 budget or however many stats, let's say I'm Michael Sailor, I have $1,000,000 because I'm a patron of the arts.
Each month, it gets topped off. You know? And so I would have, like, my my my value for value budget each month,
and then it would pull all of my consumption data from every platform
that I consumed content from, whether it's Netflix, whether it's Fountain, whether it's, you know, anywhere, whether it's a website that I read an article from.
And so somehow getting permission from all of those platforms
to get, you know, the consumption data and then say, cool. This is,
you know, I wanna push the button or have it just automatically go, sub split into, you know, if you've
got the producers or a movie or whatever. Do you feel like that's something that is can is that buildable?
Well, there's already a version of this,
true fans dot f m Okay. Where you can set exactly that. You can set a budget, and it will autopay
when a new, episode drops, whether you've listened to it or not.
But go back to my previous statement. I won't repeat it, but let's not,
waste any time on trying to integrate
Netflix and Disney and Hulu into this.
We'll we'll be just fine. There's
indie hub is another,
you know, indie hub is focusing
specifically on films, documentaries,
and they're
also on the value for value train.
So I'm always very cautious,
but I would just say there's no reason to try and go get those guys to come along
because they have no interest in that. They are the enemy.
But but they have the catalog. And so that's kind of for me as a consumer Let me let me say something about that. Okay. Let me say something because I was very concerned. I started boostagram ball,
which is very hard for me to do on a regular basis. But,
as a as a disc jockey, as a top 40 radio guy, I was like, you know, if I can't play ACDC back in black, I don't think I'm gonna like doing the show because this is the kind of stuff that I need.
And once I went into
the catalog of what is available value for value,
which you can see in many different places, lmbeats.com
gives you a full a full listing
of everything, you know, not just wave lake, but all the,
the the demu,
decentralized music, that is hosted on other platforms.
Once you go in there and you start to listen and you listen to other music podcast,
and you hear it reminded me. You hear a song 3 times. A good song is like, oh, yeah. I'm humming this song now. That's a hit. And what it really brought back for me was
that the industry,
of course, had figured this out in the fifties.
If you just repeat a a good song is a good song. If you if you keep repeating it,
then it will become a hit and more people wanna hear it and more stations will play it. And it it's not like they've got the good stuff or they've got the catalog.
The catalog is out there that is not on the streamers, is much bigger, much richer, more fun, more interesting
than anything available,
on on the Netflixes, etcetera.
Now are the big budget movies there? Well, some.
You know, we're we're seeing this very slowly. We're seeing things crop up.
I think the Daily Wire guys are are doing interesting things.
You know, Matt Walsh
just put his amiracist
movie in theaters,
which is, you know, that's very tough to do as an independent distributor. But they're also streaming things online, and they're making it available online.
Mike Smith has, out of the shadows,
into the light, 2 separate movies that you can,
you can stream online for payment.
So, yeah,
all the promotion around something,
you know, it's like, oh, they have the catalog, but, you know, we're making our own catalog. The stuff that's out there is
astronomical
in scope and scale.
You know, we just have to kind of harness it into
into into these new systems where people can get compensated for the work that they did. And, also, like like IndieHub,
with the splits,
same thing. You know? It's like, you can you can immediately send payments onto the catering.
You know, you don't have to have it all trickled down, you know, through through ASCO or through
SAG, AFTRA, etcetera.
These are all companies that hold your money for 48 months and the penny drops out and Taylor Swift wins. You know? So let's just forget about that. They're not gonna come,
you we're wasting our time if we're gonna try and go after them. And quite honestly, I find,
what people are creating themselves
with the technology that's available, Not a fan of Apple anymore, but the new iPhone does make cinematography
quite amazing.
I'm looking forward to what we're seeing from from independents around the world who now finally
have a way to actually get compensated.
I think with fee fee for b as well, it it's it's kind of the fun bit. It's like using it as a way of rewarding the content. So it
it's I suppose we're I mean, for some sort of subscription is useful for some purposes,
when you're like me and you forget to, like, renew your, you know, web hosting or whatever.
But the fun the fun bit of v for v and and for engagement is is really you listen to something. You're like, oh, yeah. That really resonates with me. And you just have that yearn
to send something,
you know, to to to give them some affirmation
beyond the like.
And,
I think it by setting something like that up, although some people will use it, I think it's like it's almost taking the fun out of it. You know? Like, I could imagine, like, in Fountain, maybe we have, you know, you could, like, you just like, Adam said, it will exist in some of the platforms where you can have a a budget and and and depending on the content you listen to, you get it to auto
send some sets. But,
for for me, it's the fun bit. When I consume something, I wanna
say thank you in a in a by saying And so that the thing is it's not the it's not about removing that part, but it's also it's just making sure you see You know, you cover your ass as far as just, like, oops. I didn't forget to contribute to my my Yeah. Like, be a be a patron. And I didn't go over budget. Because if you're going in all these other little areas, and let's say, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a single mom. Right? And it's like, I I wanna have a $10 a month tipping budget. I don't accidentally keep blowing my wad over here and being like, oops, I forgot to tip over here or do my value for value. So I wanna I wanna be mindful of my own consumption model, and I wanna be mindful of,
you know, making sure that everybody gets, you know, a fair shake kind of thing. And it's obviously adjustable. So it's like, if this month I'm, oh, I don't wanna, you know, spend this much because of my kid's birthday, I'm gonna lower my threshold kind of thing. Or next month, it's like, woo hoo. I got a deal. Then something's awesome. I'm gonna uplevel my my my contributions,
you know, to to everybody.
Adam wants to share the screen, and then I wanna talk about,
open mic is doing something too about independent artists and stuff that we're gonna be doing in Austin in December. So we'll be talking about that. But, yeah, let's see, Adam. Yeah. So this is, this is helipad. This is connected directly to my lightning node. Okay. This is part of the excitement that I get. Now I do a number, a number of different shows,
and so you'll see
different,
different shows in here.
But this is literally coming in. Right now, it's, like, almost every minute. You're seeing
my splits. You see the amount that I'm getting for that split. You see here, in this case, it was a song that was played. I get a very small piece. There you go. There's Eric p p. So I got 20% of 500 sats. This is just streaming. So he's sending 500 sats
while streaming.
And, you know, this just goes on and on and on. There's a lot of fountain in there, by the way. But there are there are different apps.
And then, you know, so it's very exciting when you release a podcast.
And the minute you release it, you just start to see this stuff just roll in because that's real time. That's someone actually listening to that's not a download number. That's showing someone who is who is listening in real time. They are hearing what I what I made, what I produced, and it's and it's and they are rewarding me with just boosting is loving, I say. They're rewarding me,
in real time. And so, you know, over here, you can see the boosts,
take a second to load.
And, you know, this is so here's all the messages. And by the way, we got a 500,000
smaller boost from open mic.
You know, it's and and as you heard, there's some sounds. So if someone
hits a certain amount, it triggers a sound. I mean, there's nothing
that makes me smile more when I'm walking around the house and all of a sudden from the studio,
I hear, you know, the big baller jingle or I hear the harp going because someone sent a a 7777.
I mean, this is this is real
interactive
amazing stuff that's going on here where I've sent something out into the universe. People are enjoying it. They're letting me know in real time often automatically.
Wow. This is amazing. And I like that you can see everybody, you know, who it is. Can can you, like, go back, like, Adam, on this screen? Like, can you click like, right now, click on can you click open mic and then send him back a message or anything here, or is this just one of a Yeah. Some apps actually allow that. For instance, here's Eric p p. He sent,
he sent 8,008,
so, automatically, I get those little 8 balls. Okay. So I can go back here, and I can say this is,
from Adam.
And I'll send him a 1,000 sats, and I'll say, you
know, thank you, brother.
Oops.
And I'll undo cap lock.
Hey, boomer.
Boomer thumbs. Alright. And then I hit that boost and,
oh, okay. The and I got an error.
It looks so good. Oh, here we go. No. Okay. So
that's the concept. Yep. Yep.
Can't do it with every single,
with with every single,
app.
But this is an aggregator thing that's coming in for all of your your Yeah. So the helipad is open source. ERICPP actually maintains it. Nice. And you literally
can load So I run a start 9 for my node. I love those guys. It makes it nice and easy. It's rock solid for me.
You just load this app and it goes right into your lightning node and picks up all this information from, from all of the individual payments.
And, not everyone supports all the different pieces of it, but it's really nice when you can see,
if I go back here a little bit, you can see
on podcasting 2.0, we played a song. I think that was Ainsley Costello.
Let's see. Oh, this is a different one we played. I wanna be your woman from the aqueducts.
And so 5,000 stats came in. I actually got nothing because I send all of that on to the artist.
And, you know, you click on here, and then it's gonna open up,
the the page with that artist.
You know? So it it all kind of because it's all open, these are open formats and and protocols.
Anybody can build something cool on top of it.
Wow. That's awesome. And so just to clarify, like, so, for example, Barry, like, if I'm setting up like, you were saying, if I wanna play a song for, like, you know, whatever, 5 minutes and I'm playing Ainsley's song Mhmm. At, you know, minute number 10 to 15 or whatever,
I could put that into Pod Home. I could put
Ainsley's address there. Yeah. And then You don't even have to do that. You don't even have to do that. It we've made it so seamless. You just you literally
look up the song,
you you then copy paste the this it's called a value time split.
You copy that in into your system. I'm sure Berry works. I think with Berry, it's even simpler. You don't have to copy paste anything, and it automatically brings in all of that information
from Ainsley's feed. So it it's completely seamless. It's and, you know, there's all kinds of great tools that we have that make that really simple for everybody.
Wow. This is so amazing.
Does anybody have any comments on that? Do you wanna,
do you have One thing on that I'll just add.
I think the music podcasts are one of the coolest things
that's happening within podcasting 2.0 and value for value.
You know, the ability to to switch the money, to go directly to the artist when the song is playing is just so cool. And also because all of the metadata
around,
which song is playing is available,
apps like Fountain can display the track list on the episode page
and also directly from the player.
So, you know, you can be listening to Adam
whilst he's doing boost to ground ball.
You know, you hear a song at minute 25
that you know you like. You can just quickly look at the player,
tap the track list,
find the track, and it'll be fine for you.
There you go. 777.
And so I think this is this is something that's really cool. I would also recommend for any podcasters listening,
because the music podcasts
are so new,
all of them are value for value. And so if you're looking for some shows to go and listen to
to get a sense for how,
best to communicate the ask
or just get an understanding of some of the terminology,
I would definitely go and check out the music podcast. We actually have a section
in the fountain search page
that features a few different music podcasts, including Boost Scramble,
from Adam. So I would go and check those out because I think the music shows really
show a broad
section of everything that's on display within podcasting 2.0.
Amazing. I love it. Love it. Love it.
Any other feedback or comments, guys, about,
you know, how to help people understand
this technology
that I think is gonna be changing our world? I love, Adam, what you were saying. You know, you remind me of of
Buckminster Fuller. You know? Right? Like, let's just build the new world that we don't need to keep putting fuel into this old one that's obviously not working and toxic.
I think that's a a philosophy a lot of us share.
Yeah. I think it's it's it's really important,
just with the Go ahead. Supporting sorry. Supporting, like across.
Oh, sorry. Can you did what did you say?
Regarding your,
ask for an app that,
allows you to
locate a budget for for for someone that you'd like to support.
You could have a look at,
that planner, for example.
So that's that's an app.
Uh-huh. That planner. Yeah. Exactly. So,
that allows you to set up recurring payments
according to your own schedule.
So all you need is,
a lightning address from the person that you would like to support. So,
I actually did that before the show for your own lightning address.
And then I defined an amount, and then I can say how often I wanna pay you. I can do that on a on a daily basis, hourly basis, or weekly basis.
Right?
And,
I then,
connect my wallet.
It actually works with a lot of different wallets, not only with Alby account.
And and then,
payments go regularly out to the person that you defined here, basically.
And that is also,
backed by a budget, actually. So you can say how much you wanna spend.
And,
if it's gone, like the budget is gone, then also the the recurring payment stops then for the month.
Got it. But you still have to manually go in and, you know so this would be similar to, like, a patron model. Right? So I would maybe go in and say, yay. I wanna support
Oscar because he's awesome, and I wanna, you know, make sure he gets a 1,000 sats a month from me or something like that, whatever it is.
I think I'd like this model for sure, and I also wonder
on top of it or in conjunction with it, it's just that, like,
you know, in the background, just knowing that there's a base layer that anything that I actually consume, so whether I consume a 1000 units of content or 4 units of content
regardless of the source, that I know that my my,
the folks that I'm consuming content from are gonna have some, you know, form of value that I get to offer them, you know? And so I think there's,
you know, it's like a little matrix. We put them all together, hopefully, and put something,
you know, that we can feel good about being content consumers and content creators, you know, getting,
value.
But so hey. So Open Mic,
with Tunster,
you know, is very interested, obviously, in supporting independent artists and independent creators. You know? And so I think, you know, what Adam was saying earlier is just, like, there's a multitude. There's so much out there that we can start, you know, putting our attention towards.
I think it's very important that we do support
the upcoming creators that are Bitcoiners, you know, and that are, you know, freedom lovers. So,
yeah. So
any other thoughts? I know we're at 2:30, we're at 12:30 right now about if does anybody have any thoughts that they wanna share before if we wanna open it up? I don't know if anybody in the audience has any questions,
but I wanna make sure you guys all got out what you wanna get out because it's super I know this could go on for a minute. So
we've talked about,
like, the the bells and whistles. Right? And, money, fee for fee, all that type of stuff. But I think the essence here is freedom. Right? Freedom of information, freedom of,
creativity,
and freedom also then of money.
Right? And so this whole ecosystem,
like Adam said in the beginning from the podcast index to the apps, to the hosting platforms,
to the wallets,
through all of the sets that flow through it, all provide,
the listeners, the creators,
and everybody in between freedom. And that is extremely important, especially in these times. Like,
I have a couple of customers that have been kicked off of every other platform,
and they now host with us.
And we will or we promise to keep it,
to keep it up, of course, and we will not censor. We might not agree with the messages that they say, for instance, always, but that doesn't matter. We believe in freedom of speech.
And so
with hosting like that and with RSS feeds and then with modern podcast apps
that take that information from the podcast index, for instance, which is not a platform and will never censor you either,
then you have this whole chain of freedom.
And so if we all opt in to that and use all these modern
things like, for instance, fountain and other modern apps, then we all choose freedom of information as well. So
that's very important.
So I think we should all just do that.
Yeah. I love that that point, Barry, because I think about, you know, we we you know, that phrase, you vote with your dollars, and it's kinda like
doing these things. We're voting with our attention for freedom. And if we're choosing to use these other
tools,
it's gonna keep, you know, fortifying that as, like, how we wanna live as human beings on planet Earth. You know, obviously, there's so many folks out there that aren't allowed to use their voices. You know, obviously, right now, we've got free you know, Ross is in jail for coding. We've got women who can't speak. You know, they can't even leave their homes in certain parts of the world without wearing, you know,
almost a garbage bag over their head, you know, and having a male escort from their family. And so those of us who have the luxury and privilege of our voices,
I I think it's up to us to continue to keep pushing that that forward even brighter and being a light for other people, you know, not to be afraid. And then setting an example
by, you know, the tools and the the the places where we put our attention. So I I love that that comment. Anybody else?
My Internet sucked. What was the what was the question? I'm hungry. I need lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Go eat. It's just it's we're at, like, 2:30. We're at kind of the q and a hour, and I just wanted to see if anybody had any final thoughts if they wanna share and wanna make sure you guys got your messages out. And if there happen to be any questions from the audience, we'd be happy. You know, we can take them.
I I would say I would say I would I would say that the freedom of speech requires freedom of movement, freedom of association. You should be able to take your data anyway. You should be able to move anywhere between platforms. It needs to be interoperable.
Walled gardens are prisons, setting a matter of time until people realize that decentralized platforms can push agendas if they want to, and people are starting to realize that with Twitter.
And that just does our you know, makes our work infinitely easier because people become disenfranchised. They look for alternatives, and there are alternatives being built right now. And then we just have need to have those alternatives ready for when those those people arrive.
But, yeah, it's all about free speech, and we just try to make free speech easier by making it evil easier e even easier for people to control their own stuff.
Totally.
Mauriz, Oscar.
Also, I think people should not be afraid,
of of starting to use these value for value apps.
Because what I've experienced from this community
that has already been formed,
around that, they
everybody's extremely welcoming
and supportive.
So if if if something does not work out at the first time,
everybody would would be there to help you.
And I think just, like,
tipping the tone to the water and just get off,
and download one of these apps and start using it and get yourself familiar with it. No need to set up a wallet from the beginning.
But,
but listen to these podcasts,
learn, and then,
yeah,
continue from there.
Love it. Oscar?
Yeah. I would just echo what Marit said. Don't be scared of any of this. It's all really, really easy.
Download Fountain, set up a wallet in a couple of taps,
and top up with a bank card,
and then listen to
some of the other podcasts that are successful already with value for value. You can, check out fountain.fm/charts,
where you can see all of the top shows
each week, top episodes, and and just listen to how they communicate
the value for value ask and get a sense for what type of language is gonna fit for you. So, yeah, don't be scared. It's really easy. And if you have any feedback about Fountain,
feel free to reach out.
My email is Oscar at fountain.fm,
and we're always looking for feedback.
Love it. Thanks, Oscar. Thanks, everybody, for being on the panel.
You guy what do you think about this question here from felonies?
Sorry if I'm mutilating your name. I apologize. Is it gonna be possible in the future for DJs to mix a set together with v for v music, like, on a sample level at a live,
venue or, like, a turntable list?
That that would be awesome. Right?
Then somebody needs to have, like, a sample pack that they upload,
as RSS
and then attach fee free information, for instance, to that,
which I'm not sure if that is already around. I wouldn't be surprised if that is already somewhere, like, on Wave Lake or something.
The question then is, can you do it live, I think you're asking.
I don't know
about that. License wise and and all that type stuff because that is different, of course.
It already is, I see,
in the comments. So a sample pack probably already exists
in the the value verse that you can use. But the live aspect, I don't know.
Adam, don't you don't you say you guys use stems and do a bunch of stuff with the the No Agenda community?
Well, so,
we can do the the value time splits live. I don't know
how,
you know, it it it just comes down to the speed of the app and processing the payments at that point. And if someone's throwing samples in,
for instance, I have a kind of like a radio playout system.
And whenever I hit a song, which could easily be a sample, it immediately
changes the value block in my live feed,
which,
I think many of the the podcast apps already use. I know Fountain does, Podcast Guru, CurioCaster.
So the minute that happens, the value block changes and the payment information
that those apps receive changes.
It would be you know, if you're just doing samples of a second or so, I mean, that might be tasking the system.
But certainly mixing stuff together should not be a problem at all. I mean, I could even see
where we can overlap. No one's done it yet, but you can certainly overlap those value blocks during the mix.
It would be a fun project to to test. I mean, technically, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. It already works today in a live environment.
Booster Grand Ball, I I do it live. So the minute I hit the next song, the value block switches.
Mix is a little different, so we'd have to see how you mix the the the the value time splits together.
But,
hey.
Someone out there interested? Let's do it. Let's do it. I know that's what's so fun. It's like, hey. Who wants to do it? Okay. Let's go play. That's such a cool thing. Okay. Lifetime splits are awesome. I'd like to do it for my Mac, my Tedding hurdles. Yeah. It sounds like
we need
to to work on some tech here, guys, for some some DJs and tunes in the future. So are there any other questions from the audience, guys? If not, these guys are getting hungry. Adam, I know, is taking 2 and a half hours to be here with us. I can hear his tummy grumbling through that really good mic of his.
Yeah. Just,
Randy Yeah. Go ahead. You're hosting with me. So if you, just hit me up to, what you are, running into on your Mac, and then we'll figure that out. Okay? Just send me a message.
Awesome.
Love it, guys. Well,
I am so grateful for everybody who tuned into this live and everybody who's gonna be watching these recordings. We're gonna be cutting them up,
and, you know, getting some information out to people so we can help new podcasters get on board. Hey, Adam. Like,
what about Joe Rogan? Why is he is he is he gonna be on podcasting 2.0 soon? What's going on with that dude? You know, this is, like, the number one question,
not even question. People tell me. You gotta tell Joe. You gotta tell Joe. Yeah. No one tells Joe anything.
When I go on Joe, I can talk about what I'm doing. I can talk about,
you know, Bitcoin. I've done all of that. You know, you're not you're not it's all you're not orange peeling them right. You're not doing it right. Okay.
Joe is Joe, and Joe will do his thing. And,
you know, again, it's like he's almost legacy media in this case. You know? So we don't need Joe for this to be successful. Just because Joe does it, you know, will that will that make it better or no. I mean, will then in fact, one of the things when we started the index is, you know, we said, we wanna make sure we pave the way for the next Joe Rogan.
That's the idea here. Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea too. I know. I think about, you know, people will get Bitcoin when they get it and when the time is right. You know? And but I also
I guess because I feel that there is a sense of urgency
for the people on the planet who need Bitcoin as a tool to escape authoritarian regimes, as people who need it to escape domestic violence. I'm gonna be hosting a Bitcoin for,
domestic violence summit in, November with women in distress. And so,
for me, like, I wanna
make sure that the powers that be don't mutilate and strangle Bitcoin to some degree where, you know, when the people who need it finally understand it. It I don't want it not that it ever could be too late, but it sort of does seem like we're getting this little crunch
of, you know,
control and, you know, these these,
yeah. Thanks, Chad. I'll be the next Joe Rogan.
The the, you know, the control
of, you know, these these legacy,
like, financial institutions and and political systems. I don't wanna have people who need Bitcoin as a life or death tool to get,
to get in too late. And I think that's kinda why I have a fire. I gotta ants in my pants. You know what I mean? And I'm kinda like, let's get all these people who've got mega audiences
and orange pill them, and they're like orange pill dominoes, you know, and so their whole audience can fall. And then we get this hurricane, this tidal wave of of love and adoption for freedom money.
So that's I don't know. That's just kinda my jam. Well, you know, and I love that, and everyone does their own bit. You know?
I've been promoting podcasting since day 1. Yeah. It's it's a long haul. It's a long push. It's, you know, like pushing water uphill with a broom.
But, also, you know, some people eventually get voted off the island. That's just the fact of life. Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. And, you know, I'm
just so grateful that we are
on the island at the moment.
Amen.
So thank you guys all so much. I'm so grateful and blessed and honored to be your friends and to be your soul sister and be rocking this journey together.
And, you know, anything I can do to help support your projects, what you're up to, your your initiatives, I'm I'm here. I know I'm not Joe Rogan
yet, but,
but I'm at your service. And so thank you, Adam. Thank you, Marie. Thanks, Oscar. Thanks, Barry. Thanks, Ben. I know you had to jump off to to be with your little one. And, thanks everybody for tuning in so much. So I wish you all the most love and peace, love, and so much warm aloha. And, please make sure you go follow everybody. I'm gonna have everything in show notes. I'll have all the links. I'll have everything where you guys can go follow everybody, and, we'll keep moving the needle forward on, freedom, technology, and love. So thanks again, you guys. I really, really appreciate you all. Amen. Thank you, Vel. Thank you. Alright. Thanks for putting this together. Guys.
Mhmm. Yay.
Woo hoo. We did it. High five, boys. Yay.
Thank you so much, you guys. Thank you, Adam, for taking so much time, and thank Moritz and Oscar and Barry for everything you guys are doing. This is amazing. So I really
I feel so grateful to get to do this. And, yeah, I mean it. Anything I can do to help, just I'm here.
Appreciate it. We'll definitely be in touch. Hey,
aloha. Thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you guys loved this episode.
Do me a huge favor. We need to get the message out there. So the more that you can like, subscribe, and share with your friends, the better results we're gonna get on making the world a way better place for everybody.
And if you guys want, please come sign up for the Love Warrior newsletter. You can go to djvalerieblove.com/subscribe.
And we have got lots of cool things that are in the newsletter that aren't in the podcast. So make sure you sign up, tell your friends. And again, thanks for tuning in and don't forget,
you got the love. Yeah, baby.
You got the love. You got the love. You got the love. You got the love.
K. That