I would spend, I would say, on average, 12 hours a show,
and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else, and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time. I mean, John used to message me
constantly saying,
mate, you need to stop this. You're gonna kill yourself because it was just there was no sleep. It was just constant,
but it but it matters to me what goes out. I don't I'd rather not do anything at all
than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
Welcome to about podcasting,
a show for podcasters.
We talk about podcasting practices, tools, successes, and failures mixed with interviews and music.
Hosted on podhome.fm,
the most modern podcast hosting platform.
Welcome to another episode of About Podcasting.
This week, I am talking with The Ungovernable
Misfits.
This group works on The Ungovernable
Misfits podcast,
and I speak with 3 of them. 1 of them joined our conversation later, and that's okay. I just kept the conversation
as it is.
We talk about why they do what they do,
how they are able to keep bad sponsors
and ads away,
and
what their workflow is.
Alright.
Enjoy.
Why did you start this in the first place? Why did you get into podcasting?
I started the podcast
originally. It was,
I think, the end of 2018
because I was really interested in Bitcoin
and
everyone in my
life around me in the real world
just would rather do anything
other than speak to me about it. So I was just like,
I guess, trying to find a way to speak to
people who had interest and learn from the people that I was following on Twitter and
people who really knew what they were talking about with the privacy and security side of things.
And I thought, well, this is the best way for me to do it because
I'm not a software developer.
I'm not built for that. I'm very, very bad at it. And,
I like talking to people,
so that's a good way for me to learn.
And,
Yeah, that's how it started. And then
whatever it is, 6 years later,
winning for me or like being successful for me has been
the fact
that the podcast has never had to sell out. We've never had to take on shitty sponsors that have
hurt our listeners
or,
fed information that isn't true.
We've always been able to say what we want and not be owned. And to me, that success,
things really took a big step up in the last
probably
year to year and a half.
We rolled things out to Uncoverable Misfits, which
is our new branding.
And we added clothing. We added lots of things like that.
Mr. Crown came on board and helped with a lot of the artwork and the website, and he's been just
a massive change to the quality of what we put out.
Then John came along.
He's a useless fuck and he's not here today because he doesn't know how to manage time,
but
he knows a lot about mining.
And when he says something, he's, when he says he's going to do something, he does it. And I really like working with him. He came on after I did an interview with him and instantly got on really well.
We started doing our mining show and PMM,
and
then Jordan came on
very shortly afterwards.
I was listening to the show,
likes what we were doing and offered help.
I said to Jordan, look, we're not in a position where we can
offer a job or payment or do anything like this. Isn't it's a successful podcast in the fact that we can do what we want, but not necessarily financially.
And he said, I don't care. I just want to hear some truth. Let me help. And since children's come on board,
things have really, again, taken a big step up. And
the quality
of what we're doing is
I mean, far better than it was before
and, and also changing across to Pod Homes. So,
maybe Jordan can take it from there, but, that's kind of the history of it.
Okay.
Awesome. And so
what's your role now in all of this, Jordan?
Well
You're a no agenda listener Right, Barry? Yes
Yeah So like in that instance I like to think of myself as like
the Drep Scott
to,
Don Dove all misfits
just the idea of like doing the back
behind the scenes kind of stuff
So whether it's chapters or any
any technological things that have to do with the podcast and then also just buttoning everything up and you know, when the product goes out
everything's kind of like wrapped up in a bow and ready for the listener
Yeah
Okay.
And we'll we'll go into
workflow and and what you actually do there, for instance, with the GIF, chapter art and all that crazy stuff,
later.
Maybe,
let's pick on something that you mentioned there,
Max,
where
you did not sell out to, crappy sponsors and stuff. Does that mean that you do monetize
with ads and sponsors?
It does. Yeah.
We have got sponsors,
but we are
very, very careful
who we choose,
and have done from the beginning.
So
it's important that
none of our sponsors collect data on our listeners. We care about their privacy.
Mhmm. We make sure that we're not putting our listeners,
potentially in harm's way
because
if data is being collected
by these companies,
whether they sell it, whether they're
collaborating
with government agencies or doing anything in the back end or they just get hacked and all the information leaks,
it puts our listeners
in harm's way and that's not acceptable to us. No matter how much money is waived in front of our faces,
we will never do that.
So that's one of the criteria. And then
the other is ideally that there's no risk on the back end. So
when we're
working with a sponsor, it's important that it's not people putting money down
with
the potential to either make more or get it back.
It's only
they're buying a product or service that is extremely clear
and they buy it and they get it rather than,
I don't know, some of this yield nonsense and all this kind of stuff that a lot of people were selling
or
taking money for minors that may arrive in the future, but you're not guaranteed a slot, that kind of stuff that went on
with most podcasts. They took that money,
and then listeners got fucked, so
we won't do that. What we're really trying to push towards is
ideally that we could do podcasting 2.0,
lightning payments and boosts to sustain it.
That would be the dream and not have to have any sponsors at all. But the reality is that
some of the sponsors
we are just very happy with. Like, we are proud to
talk about what they do,
and so we don't see that as an issue. But,
the big money, as everyone knows, is with the exchanges and the ones that have the risk,
but we won't touch that.
Right.
Okay. And so now you do a mix of,
the sponsors and then podcasting 2.0 with lightning payments, with streaming, and with sets. Right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
So we're trying to lean in as much as we can with the podcasting 2.0 and the boosts, but,
you know, the truth is it costs a lot of money to produce the show. It takes a huge amount of hours,
and
we have to just cover our ass.
Like, all of us are working
normal jobs or 2 normal jobs and doing this on top, and
we just need to cover some of the editing costs and bits and pieces. And ideally, one day it would be nice if it actually helped us
financially
and we could put more of our time into it because
it's something I've talked to Jordan a lot about and
the rest of the guys is like
often when you're working a normal job and you've got family and everything else, like
if I'm doing 60 hours a week and then I've got family on top
And then I've somehow got to do all the stuff with the podcast and
find guests and book guests and do the research and do the recording and do the editing or pay an editor. And then
all the other stuff that we put out with the artwork and everything is like you just run out of time and energy. And
I can't help thinking that
we could do something
even more, even better. I have so many ideas of things that I'd like to do, but
time and money is always
restricting things. So the idea would be that one day,
to not do the, the Fiat land work and and to do this full time.
Yeah. Yeah. That's a dream, isn't it? For sure.
So how is it going with boosts and sets? Is that it do you see it increasing?
Is it going well?
That's maybe one for Jordan. Do you want to jump in on that, mate? Yeah. I'm not sure. Because like,
I couldn't really see the boost side of it,
before we started doing stuff in, in late January there
So all I can say is that it's consistent
And,
one other thing I wanted to add in there when it comes to, monetary support
is,
when,
Adam Anderson did,
the payment boost
So that's another way as well So,
bringing On chain back into podcasting
you know how Adam always complains about the tally coin on podcasting 2.0
Yeah, just trying to make that more of a common thing as well
Yeah. Definitely.
Paynim
is such a amazing way for people to support the show, and it's just not used by enough people, in my opinion.
There's a lot of misunderstanding around it.
Not that many people use it because
it's not available to use in most wallets,
but it stops address reuse and it's just a really clean, beautiful way for people to monetize.
And and what is that exactly? Can you explain it for me as a as a pleb?
Jordan, do you wanna jump on it?
Yeah. Yeah. I can go for it. Yeah. So very,
what it was meant to it's called, like, a serverless payment.
So,
if you think about like lightning a lot of the times, right, and he send solves
is that,
you could send lightning payments without the other person's wallet having to be online
And so this works as well because,
on the On Chain side because,
while I don't have to be online
to receive a payment
I do have to give you an address to send the payment to
And if I give you an address in the past you could obviously reuse that address in the future
But,
I would address reuse is obviously,
not a good practice
just from a privacy perspective
And so how do you accomplish,
being able to do that
what you can do is, with Pay NIMs
It's kind of, it's a, it's a private payment in a sense where,
I create this connection to you on the blockchain,
via opportune So it's just like a field
within the transaction
And that kind of connects us
and what I can do in the future
is send to your quote unquote Pay NIM
which just references back to that,
that opportune transaction
connection that we made
And I can send you,
payments that I don't need to get an address from
okay Yeah So, so very privacy focused
Yeah Okay Cool
I did not know that.
So maybe we can go to, a bit of the workflow here because you already mentioned that it takes a lot of time, and effort to create a show. Sure. So what what do you do? How do you start? You you mentioned that you have guests as well. So do you use something to the scheduling tool or something like that?
I actually don't. We're still refining
the way things work. So, like,
the way things used to work was just me on my own, like skating around, trying to make things work,
didn't have necessarily the best systems in place.
And over time things have got better.
The scheduling
still
is just done mainly like Telegram
or,
you know, by email. Sometimes
I don't use scheduling tools.
It tends to just be me reaching out to people
and saying, do you want to jump on the show? And if they say yes,
okay,
can you do one of these three dates and times? They choose 1. Cool. I'll send you a link. And that's how it sort of works.
We might get more professional at some point
and have a nice calendar request like you've sent us and learn from the master. But at the moment, it's just,
yeah, it's just me pinging people and saying jump on.
But there's been less interviews
recently just because of time constraints.
We've done more of our monthly shows which are much easier to schedule because it is
people within Ungovernal Misfits that are jumping on those. So
me and John, for the 2 monthly shows that we do, the PMM and
the mining
I always forget the name. What's it called, Jordan?
Action news.
And action news. And,
then we have a Bitcoin monthly, which is more of like a rundown of the news and technical updates within Bitcoin.
And that's usually with Bitcoin Q&A and Antimus
who are friends and they're part of Unken Law Misfits. So it's pretty easy to,
organize that. It's only when we're getting guests on,
from outside of our little crew
that I have to schedule.
Yeah.
Within, Pod Home, by the way, we're going to make that easier by integrating a tool like that, like cal.com
or something. We're taking a look at which one is good. Very nice. So that you can plan your your episode. Right? You can plan your episodes, invite guests, create maybe some notes in there.
Mhmm. Because it we're trying to make it as such that you don't really have to go outside of the app to do things within your podcast workflow. Right? That's that's the goal. Okay. So Got it. This would be a part of them. Yeah.
Yeah. I've been noticing that a lot, Barry. It's becoming more and more of, like, a massive ecosystem in PodOne.
Yeah. We're trying. We we we don't want to do, everything like, this. For instance, we're using a recording app. We don't want to rebuild, that whole thing because, you know, took many, many years to do this, I'm sure. And lots and lots of effort. I'm not trying to recreate that type of stuff.
Yeah. But just to make the workflow easier. That's all.
Okay. So and then you have,
right, you scheduled your guests. You can do the recording.
What what happens then? How do you record? What type of gear do you have? And and then what happens?
So
gear wise,
I just use a simple
yeti blue,
microphone
with a boom stand.
Nothing fancy,
but it seems to do the job okay.
We currently use
Zencastr
for the recordings
just because it records locally.
If the connection drops, we have a backup.
It seems to be pretty good.
So that's what we're using. There might be something better out there. It's just what I've used for ages and it's done all right.
That's the recording equipment. And then,
for editing,
we've now farmed that out. So we've, it took me
about two and a half years to find an editor that was competent.
I tried
maybe 5 or 6 different people who it was their job, their professional editors,
and
I cannot believe that they were like, they were
horrendous at their jobs. And so I kept trying people and then
giving feedback and saying, you know, it might be an idea to maybe be slightly less shit in these areas. Could you adjust your change and slumber, blah, blah, blah,
and just kept, like, bleeding money, just trying different people.
And finally,
we found someone now who
is very good. Took a little bit of tweaking, like 2, 3 episodes to get into the groove and understand our style,
But
now things are sent to him.
All the individual recordings are sent over to him
and
he sends it back and it's kind of like 95%
there. I'll still
mess around and adjust a few things. I'll probably spend another
maybe 3 hours on a show before it goes out after he's done his bit, but it used to be maybe
12 hours a show I'd spend. So, you know, it's it's a massive time saver.
Wow. 12 hours per show for editing the audio alone? Yes.
I'm a very, very sad individual,
and sick too. That's true.
But, yeah, I would
just painstakingly
go through. The way I looked at it is, like,
I want the audience to get
the absolute best out of their listening time. So if something's an hour and a half, but it could be brought down to an hour because there's a bit of waffle
and umms and ahs or a technical issue or whatever the thing is,
I'll tighten that up. It doesn't need to be or even if there's something where
there's long pauses that don't need to be there because someone's trying to wrap their head around something or trying to
explain something that's very technical and difficult to explain,
I'll tighten it up because the audience don't need to go through that grief. They just want to listen and get the
information.
I would spend, I would say on average 12 hours a show
and I was doing that on top of my normal work and everything else and it was just getting to a point where I was getting ill all the time.
John used to message
me constantly saying,
mate, you need to stop this. You're going to kill yourself because
there was no sleep. It was just constant.
But it matters to me what goes out.
I'd rather not do anything at all
than send something that I think, oh, that's average.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then you've done all this work, you have an editor, and then you have the audio that's all ready. What do you do next?
So, yeah, I do my final bits of cleaning it up. I'll then
ping it into a Telegram group that Jordan has made, which is really nice and
ordered.
So
there's
lots of different sections
for all the different
shows,
show art writing,
like an incubator
part for ideas that we might have
everything else, and I'll just ping it across and say show is ready.
And then recently,
I'd like to get more involved with it. But again, it's just a time thing,
honestly, like all the cool stuff from that point, everything that is done that people will see and be like, wow, that's amazing. Like
the show art,
all the clips, all the chapters,
the gifts,
everything that people will see is down to
Jordan,
Crown and John. I do fuck all. Like, I'll be occasionally, I'll be at work and I have,
you know, a minute where I'm free and I'll quickly look and, you know, throw in a comment or a suggestion, but pretty much,
none of that is down to me. It's all down to those 3.
K.
So,
Jordan, what what do you do?
Yeah, so
usually the, audio file just
drops on a Friday or a Saturday.
And then I say, Oh shit, time to go to work.
And,
usually we're trying to go for a Wednesday release Right
So
I kind of start with,
depending on the shows So Bitcoin monthly
I'm usually kind of solo
between me and Crown So Crown's giving me some artwork for the show And,
and then on the PMM and action news sides
John's doing a lot of the heavy lifting then as well So John like crushes the show notes,
does nice chapter outlines
and then I kind of, so I would take his chapter outline, start mapping out the chapters.
And then after I've mapped out the chapters,
tied them to the timestamps,
then start doing the chapter art So the gifts
and the pictures
and a lot of it is just
like working in like, you know, like, GIMP
to just like make images
And a lot of it is like using the nice tool that you've made, like where it's just so easy to just grab a gift and put it in the chapter
art.
And yeah, so once all the chapters are tightened up, then it's just doing like the, the more technical stuff, right? So,
doing the value walk
So like for instance, on the last show, on the last PMM, everyone go listen
a guy in the mesh de del fundamentals
He did some guitar,
work
for, some of the segments and the outro to the show And
so I was like, Oh shoot! Like I should value time split this And he has a podcast So I know he's running a node
or he's doing something
that I can connect to
and so that worked out well too but that's just like a little added thing when it goes to, you know, packaging up podcast
so
chapters, value,
and then
it's just tightening up, the actual show notes in the podcast.
And
Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else, but
I think that's pretty much
it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and yep. Artwork as well. And artwork
is down to Mr. Crown.
So,
he'll
make everything look beautiful on the
site,
on govallmisfits.com
and he will,
do the like chapter art and adjust things on there.
So, yeah, he gets involved with that kind of stuff or if we're doing like,
you know, video promotion stuff, he'll jump in as well. Oh, I see
that nonce has just joined us.
Hello. Hi.
I'm very sorry.
Hello. Welcome.
Hi, Barry. Thank you for having us on the show. And
it's it's very unlike unlike me to do something like this. So I've heard the opposite.
From Matt from Matt. So don't bother me to do that. Talk about anything, especially Nate.
Okay.
We'll we'll,
get back to you as well. Maybe,
let's let's finish off Jordan's story here
where you create chapters, right? When did you find out or when did you want to
use GIFs for chapter art?
Okay.
This was actually mostly inspired by John because
I hadn't thought about GIFs at all, to be honest.
And then when, when we first got like the telegram chat going and everything kind of organized,
I think it was the first episode of action news.
And then John just started sending me like the shitload of like, yes, sorry, pardon my language.
Yeah, just started sending me all these gifts and pictures I'm like, what the heck am I gonna do with all these gifts?
And then I was like, oh, well, like, I wonder if I could just like shove them in there Like, so I tried to like put them in the chapter
And I think that's when I contacted you And I was like, can we do this?
So that's, that's essentially how it went down
But old John
Okay Very cool idea
Yeah You know, usually obviously that that's not permitted because of the
the whole artwork spec does not allow,
GIFs
per se, but it seems to work very well, especially with the modern podcast apps. And even, like yeah. Even legacy apps like Apple,
do show the gifts, but just as a static image. So that's the, that's the perfect fallback. Right? Yeah.
And, Mary, just one thing to say about the gifts.
So for example, like,
I always talk about this one all the time, but,
so Bifrost Manufacturers is one of our sponsors.
What, what the gifts can also do is because they're just a flipping image is that like you could literally put like
a sponsor services and just have it flip through. So like whether it's laser cutting services, CNC services,
and you see this flip through while we're doing the Bifrost section of the podcast.
And I just think it's so it's informational
I think there's some entertainment value to it So I think GIFs are like very, very useful and it's just such a simple implementation
Yeah Because basically it technically it is a small video Right? For just a few frames
So you can just sneak that in there so that people can actually see it, which is very cool. It's a cool idea. Yeah.
Okay.
So maybe we can, turn to,
John if he is still on.
Hello. I'm still
on. Hello.
Maybe you can tell your version as well as to why you do,
why you podcast.
You know, we we podcast because we want to communicate with people.
We have something to say and the
the current means of communicating with other people, especially in the Bitcoin community
is Twitter, of course, and and Noster and now things like Stacker News, which is a little bit better because you can do as long form as you want. But I'm an audio guy. I like to talk. I don't like to type. It it frustrates me. I I don't feel that I that I get that same connection with people when I'm typing something out as to when I'm speaking.
And as far as what I bring to the Bitcoin community, that's that's the plug mining side of things. That's the self sovereignty. The the things that I think about, I want to communicate with other people.
And, I'm thankful to Max over the years to to give me the opportunity to be part of his podcast.
The first time he and I recorded, it was just a lot of fun.
And I had said to myself, this is something that I that I want to be involved in. And
through our friendship and through the connection and the mesh Jadel,
I was able to do that.
And once you start
having that kind of platform and interacting with people,
via the podcast and then responding to you, half of it negative, half of it positive. So you have to be aware that quite often in in podcasting, somebody is going to latch on to that one thing that you said wrong
and, just hammer it home. But it's it's very rewarding
to be able to communicate with people like that, to get all of your thoughts out, to not be limited by x amount of characters.
It's kind of addictive
to
to a degree.
You know, sometimes you think in in in for us, the in the small podcast sense,
we don't have a lot of big sponsors.
We're not willing to
sell out our
our moral foundations just to make it in podcasting, which is why I think value for value podcasting is so important.
So it's almost that high that you get from communicating with people
and expressing yourself that that keeps you going.
If we look forward,
are you guys
planning to keep going for many, many years?
What will that
take for you? As in, do you need to change something? Are you gonna change something?
And what would you like to
improve on maybe?
Certainly
for me, yes. I plan on always doing this,
as long as there's something interesting to talk about and,
you know,
everyone who's part of this group wants to continue as well because I don't think I would wanna go back to just doing it alone.
It's much more fun this way,
but, yeah, I'd like to do it forever.
What I'd really like to do, and we touched on it earlier is to dedicate all my time to it so that we can really grow this out.
I think that ungovernable misfits is unique.
I think,
certainly in the Bitcoin world,
we are
one of the only people
who are speaking freely, who aren't owned.
And I think it's important for people who are coming into the space
not to be sold the lies,
not to
misunderstand
what
we believe Bitcoin to be. And that's a freedom tool,
not people coming in and
buying the ETFs and,
bending over to get fucked by the tax man and everybody else. Like
all of the people who are part of ungodly misfits want people to understand
what you can do with Bitcoin,
how you could use it and
how you can allow yourself some more freedom in life. So,
we all think it matters and
ideal world. I dedicate all my time to
it. Great. Same for you, John.
Yeah. I I I will continue
to do this in in whatever
whatever aspect I can.
You know, Max is the linchpin
of of this show, and
we're we're in the periphery of it. If he goes full time with it,
prepare to see,
you know, and I'm not trying to kiss kiss your ass, Max, but I love it. Is it let's see. Yeah. But I'm not trying to because you love it. I don't wanna make you happy.
To see
this guy's full potential
unleashed
is is really going to be something.
And, Max, you and I have talked about this person, but please
do this. Give this a shot.
We all have your back.
We'll all go into a a another mode,
to make this happen because I feel that this show
is important, that this community, the ungovernable misfits community
is important
because we we have to be that dissenting voice to the
the cut to Bitcoin podcasts.
But I feel like we have to be there.
Not get any then. Not that what we say is is,
you know, revelatory or or we're the only ones saying these things, but sometimes we are.
But just to be a a home for
for the misfits, I don't know. It's really just the, you know, the most appropriate name.
We still want to be there communicating what they are saying. And and you'll notice on the show that we often
just relay what other ungovernable misfits are talking about
at that time.
It isn't just Max blabbering. It isn't just the guests blabbering or or or myself.
We bring in all kinds of voices
to be heard.
And
I feel it's almost our duty to keep that word out
there. Hey. It's beautiful, man.
Yeah. I I completely agree with that. I am brilliant, John. Thank you for all the kind words.
Did you just cut did you completely cut off once I said that Max was brilliant?
But, no, I mean, seriously, the the groups of people that we have involved and, like, Ungovril Misfits really splits into several groups. We've got
our Plaid Minor Mafia
that John has pretty much built himself,
built this group of
incredible
miners and people who are in and around that space,
who have just knowledge that you can't find anywhere else and
a group of people that are willing to help
without all the financial incentives, without all
the clicky stuff that you see everywhere else. It's just a group of real people.
So being able to
explain to our listeners,
the information that we get from there and introduce them to these groups is important.
The mesh to Dell, the same,
just groups of people who
care about freedom and,
people wouldn't otherwise find them.
So that's important for us with the show.
And then all the privacy side and
security side of Bitcoin, because a lot of podcasters want you to believe that you should use custodial wallets and,
all the other nonsense
that is being chilled. And we don't agree with that. So it's important for us to get that word out. And if companies in the space who are paying everybody else
are helping put people in prison,
are helping fuck listeners over,
we're going to tell people,
and we'll continue to tell people because it's important.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
So,
from a podcasting
standpoint to keep all of this going and to make it even better than it is right now,
Maybe Jordan can talk to this.
Which what would you like to see from
the podcast tooling side
to improve or to,
you know, be made into existence that doesn't exist right now?
Any tools, any any functionality
that you're missing?
Okay. Well, I think
the only thing would be well, I have some ideas, but,
when it comes to,
efficiency,
Like if
if there was an AI editor out there that could just
like absolutely crush it
I think that would be the game changer of game changers But
I think Max would probably agree with that but, like, the tech isn't really there.
AI Addersey, you mean for the audio?
Yeah. We're so far away. You sound like you just do it all within Pod Home. We're we're a 1000000 miles away. And I think specifically, like, the type of editing that we do,
Again, I touched on this earlier, but,
I think part of the reason that finding a good editor
has been so difficult is
I'm
so specific
on
how things should sound,
the pace that show you guys have no idea
how specific he is. It's ridiculous.
Yeah,
it's very annoying to be around, but
it matters to me and I don't think you're ever going to get an AI.
Well, maybe not,
not ever, but, we're certainly a long way away. Like when I farmed work out to other editors,
it's been pretty clear to me that they've been using software or AI stuff that
is
supposed to take the legwork out of it, and what you get is a shoddy
sounding,
just
horrible, either too tight or
cutting the end of words off or
increasing the sound of breath too much or whatever it is. John's listened to a couple of them that we've had back from supposed to be professional editors, and it's so much worse than even the original.
So
we're a long way off. And at the moment, to be honest, like
the editor that we're using, it's expensive and it means that we don't make any money.
But
if we started to earn a little bit more from the podcasting 2.0 boosts or we got some more sponsors on
or have we monetize it with the clothing or whatever it is that we do, I'd be very happy to pay him. I consider him part of the Uncompromised
crew. Now
he's not on the site because he wants to be anonymous, but
he's brilliant. I really enjoy working with him. So even if an AI did come along and it was good, I'd be like, nah. I wanna work with this guy.
Okay. Yeah. Totally understand.
The AIs are there are things that use AI now, like, for instance, Descript, you can put this in. It creates a transcript, and then you can say, well, take out all of the
umms and errs and silences and stuff. And that is very difficult to do,
and it will almost always do too much or too little or
something that you won't like. Yeah, because it's a, it's very binary in that sense Right? Like if you, if you can't find them all, then like, just don't bother Yeah, kinda Yeah
in regards to other features like,
wow, like
I'm just going to take a second here and just,
gloat about Cloud Home because it's
incredible
Like I had told you, like, when we first talked, Barry,
like,
I tried out a couple different services within the 2.0 space
and it's just not even close
And like if Max and John had ever ventured into,
those
the UIs of those things, like
it it's
Yeah, like I said, it's not even close
Pod Homes the place to be
Okay. So we've talked about a lot of stuff. Maybe we can end on, on this one.
What would you guys say to,
podcasters or aspiring podcasters
for inspiration and advice?
How can they make something
that is sustainable, as in that they can keep going,
that maybe they enjoy,
and that can bring success to them, whatever that might be for them.
I would just say keep going.
That eventually you'll, you'll find your groove,
whether it's your groove with your audience,
with
the the partners who you do the podcast with,
keep going.
I'm sure a lot of people have this vision in their head that, oh, man, you and I spoke last night. And wasn't that a great conversation,
especially if it was a sober one?
And wouldn't it be cool for other people to hear what we're talking about? And of course, this goes far beyond just, you know, the world that we exist in and Bitcoin and freedom and and self sovereignty.
It could be about quilting. It could be about repairing tractors. It could be about raising chickens and regenerative agriculture.
Just keep going. You will find your identity.
You'll find your vibe.
Get your feedback from the audience, but don't don't take it to heart
too much because people will really focus on just that one thing.
Don't let the one negative Nancy get you down, and the 200 people that loved it but didn't say anything,
might not be there to boost you up. Just keep going. Find your identity.
Find your group.
Yeah. I would add to that respect your audience,
and
don't
start thinking that you need to
always chase new and more and
sell out because of it by engagement farming or taking money you shouldn't or all the nonsense that you see out there. Respect the fact that you've got people who really love what you do.
And
I'd say it's much more important to have a real connection with the listeners that you have rather than just trying to chase the numbers.
It's better to have an intimate group of people who really understand what the show is about and really care about what you're doing
and you know who they are and you have a connection rather than just numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, no engagement.
I would
say that's one thing. And, 2, don't quit your day job.
You know, this thing takes
a very long time,
or it has done for me, at least some people.
It takes off straight away, but
yeah,
have realistic
expectations of what you want from it. If you want to just earn money,
it's maybe not the best idea.
But if you have something that you love to talk about and you want to meet people and have these kind of
discussions. And if the money comes at some point, then that's great.
Then then do it.
Okay. That's great.
Thank you guys very much for talking with me today.
No. Thanks for having us on, mate.
Thanks, Barry.
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